[mainline][merged] - Timeline tweaks/additions (761-829)
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[mainline][merged] - Timeline tweaks/additions (761-829)
This is the following Idea threat from this discussion. There were a few more words on discord #general on this topic.
What are the odds?
Timeline says:
761-816: Legacy of Black Eye Karun
Orc race description says:
The oldest known orcs have been around 50 to 60 years of age, but very few individuals ever live to see over two or three decades before meeting their end either in war or by the hand of one of their kin. The oldest orcs are often shamans, which are perhaps the only ones most of their kind sees as being trustworthy and neutral.
Doing little of little math, we can see that Karuns Legacy remains 55 which would already be decent age for an orc. But there is more on it. I am pretty sure that the Legacy of Karun did not start with Karuns birth, but his claim of leadership. He must have been alive for some time. Even if orcs are concidered mature very early, lets say at the age of 13, since they usually do not live that long, and Karun claimed leadership at around that age, he would die at the age of 73, and not even by infirmity of old age, but by an ambush. 73 Years is way to old for an orc, even for a legend like Karun.
Same goes for his son, the well known Kapou'e from SotBE. The fact that Karun died in the year 816 YW implies that Kapou'e must be born latest at 817 YW. Which would mean that Karun would have begotten an orcish woman at the age of round about 73 years. It is not impossible, but it would be more likely if Kapou'e was born in Karuns best ages, say, early/mid twenties or even earlier. But even with Kapou'e born in the latest possible year, 817 YW, he would be 41 years old at the end of SotBE (858YW). Not impossible, but still.
So, my suggestion is to tweak the timeline as follows (without notes):
Cons are the changes that must be made in Son of the Black Eye and maybe other campaigns which refer to those happenings with specific years.
Well, thats it I guess. I hope it doesn't cause too much changes and can be changed easily. I think it really would conduce to a more cohesive timeline.
What are the odds?
Timeline says:
761-816: Legacy of Black Eye Karun
Orc race description says:
The oldest known orcs have been around 50 to 60 years of age, but very few individuals ever live to see over two or three decades before meeting their end either in war or by the hand of one of their kin. The oldest orcs are often shamans, which are perhaps the only ones most of their kind sees as being trustworthy and neutral.
Doing little of little math, we can see that Karuns Legacy remains 55 which would already be decent age for an orc. But there is more on it. I am pretty sure that the Legacy of Karun did not start with Karuns birth, but his claim of leadership. He must have been alive for some time. Even if orcs are concidered mature very early, lets say at the age of 13, since they usually do not live that long, and Karun claimed leadership at around that age, he would die at the age of 73, and not even by infirmity of old age, but by an ambush. 73 Years is way to old for an orc, even for a legend like Karun.
Same goes for his son, the well known Kapou'e from SotBE. The fact that Karun died in the year 816 YW implies that Kapou'e must be born latest at 817 YW. Which would mean that Karun would have begotten an orcish woman at the age of round about 73 years. It is not impossible, but it would be more likely if Kapou'e was born in Karuns best ages, say, early/mid twenties or even earlier. But even with Kapou'e born in the latest possible year, 817 YW, he would be 41 years old at the end of SotBE (858YW). Not impossible, but still.
So, my suggestion is to tweak the timeline as follows (without notes):
Timeline 786 - 858 YW
Well, thats it I guess. I hope it doesn't cause too much changes and can be changed easily. I think it really would conduce to a more cohesive timeline.
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Re: [mainline] - Timeline tweaks/additions (761-829)
Seems good to me. Some notes:
The fact that the era/age is called "The Legacy of Black-Eye Karun" doesn't really mean he had to have been born before. If in a historical timeline you name an era/age after a particularly influential individual, then it's not illogical to start counting from their birth. In any case, the original starting date of 761 YW was likely arbitrary so moving it forward to 786 is fine.
So, I think it makes more sense to name the section "786-858 YW: The Legacy of Black-Eye Karun" and thus have it actually cover the whole era/age, with maybe an added year mark on when the Great Council was actually formed (or re-instated, if it wasn't actually invented by Karun but had some kind of precedent in history). Some elaboration on that:
It's unclear when the formation of the Great Council happened, and even whether the Great Horde was ever called up in Karun's time. Now, it would initially seem to make sense to assume that Karun was actually in charge of a Great Horde at some point, but there might have simply been no need. The Great Horde would be a temporary blitzkrieg machine in a time of need, and will probably run out of steam pretty quickly, so it can't have been something that was engaged at the beginning of the 15-year war. There's a few options:
1. The orcs were losing the war, so near the end of it, Karun devised the formation of the Great Council, the Great Horde was called up, and that enabled Karun to force the humans into a reasonably fair peace treaty.
2. The Great Council was formed earlier, before the war, and it was never called up during Karun's reign because the situation wasn't bad enough.
3. The Great Council was formed earlier, before the war, and Karun had the Great Horde called up near the end of the war as a means of putting an end to it, or used the possibility of calling it up as a bargaining chip in negotiating the peace treaty.
The fact that the era/age is called "The Legacy of Black-Eye Karun" doesn't really mean he had to have been born before. If in a historical timeline you name an era/age after a particularly influential individual, then it's not illogical to start counting from their birth. In any case, the original starting date of 761 YW was likely arbitrary so moving it forward to 786 is fine.
So, I think it makes more sense to name the section "786-858 YW: The Legacy of Black-Eye Karun" and thus have it actually cover the whole era/age, with maybe an added year mark on when the Great Council was actually formed (or re-instated, if it wasn't actually invented by Karun but had some kind of precedent in history). Some elaboration on that:
It's unclear when the formation of the Great Council happened, and even whether the Great Horde was ever called up in Karun's time. Now, it would initially seem to make sense to assume that Karun was actually in charge of a Great Horde at some point, but there might have simply been no need. The Great Horde would be a temporary blitzkrieg machine in a time of need, and will probably run out of steam pretty quickly, so it can't have been something that was engaged at the beginning of the 15-year war. There's a few options:
1. The orcs were losing the war, so near the end of it, Karun devised the formation of the Great Council, the Great Horde was called up, and that enabled Karun to force the humans into a reasonably fair peace treaty.
2. The Great Council was formed earlier, before the war, and it was never called up during Karun's reign because the situation wasn't bad enough.
3. The Great Council was formed earlier, before the war, and Karun had the Great Horde called up near the end of the war as a means of putting an end to it, or used the possibility of calling it up as a bargaining chip in negotiating the peace treaty.
Re: [mainline] - Timeline tweaks/additions (761-829)
No objections on that.zookeeper wrote:I think it makes more sense to name the section "786-858 YW: The Legacy of Black-Eye Karun"
I think the 3. option would be good. I'd set the creation of the Great Council somewhere between 802 and 806, I guess. The actual call might stay unknown, in case someone what to make a umc campaign of that.zookeeper wrote:There's a few options:
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Re: [mainline][merged] - Timeline tweaks/additions (761-829)
Changes to the SotBE dialoques have been merged and the wiki is updated accordingly.
Developer of Project Haldric
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Art: Bitron's Art Thread
Tools: WML Syntax Highlighter for VS Code
Add-ons: Millennium Era, Vision of a Shaman, A New Home
Art: Bitron's Art Thread
Tools: WML Syntax Highlighter for VS Code