Era of Magic (EoMa) v0.9.6

[fatquack]

No, a bridge over lava works like every other bridge, you get the best defense of the two terrain types (in this case cave and unwalkable). Right now I am playing a survival scenario with Matriarchs of Emptiness and Generals/Masters of War both on lavabridges next to each other. Very undefeatable combo! Big fun though

[wesfreak]

If it were a problem with ageless era, Era of magic factions would be replaced by the ageless era versions while playing era of magic games with ageless installed, so the problem is probably in this era. I think. I don't know how to fix this problem though. (I'll be telling the people in ageless era too)

[fog_of_gold]

Things we need to do:
-Allow te ai to summon
I'm thinking of a special chance to give a unit with summon ability the satus 'gurdian'. Then we make a ai turn with a nested side turn event (first_time_only=yes). In this side turn, we'll check, if the ai is able to summon, so if it's got enough gold, moves and attacks. I don't know when to fire this chance, but I think, in villiages, there should be a bigger chance.

-Balance the Summoner
I allways wins, if I play with them and ai, too, expect against the Loyalists. When I've got time, I'll compare all the units (and correct the calculation above about Hidden Face, Battle Mages and White Warriors, like IPS noticed)

Things would be nice to have:
-Allow to undo summon
Often you need summon for zoc; to save you or someone else, so it would be nice to have another menuitem to undo this. (Of course only while there isn't fired an event named 'move', 'attack', 'sighted')

-Another era system
I'd suggest to have three random factions:
1. random
2. random magic
3. random default
Then I'd include the Default era everywhere. I'd suggest having only Era of Magic and Era of Magic Masters.


-Balancing the third gate and make the second gate in magic masters available so they are still usefull (maybe about 40 experience?)

[inferno8]

Something I just noticed: If you have era of magic and ageless era installed, your ageless era EOMa factions use EOMa stats, creating oos.

Some of EoMa units from Ageless share the same id with those from my era. That's why they are overwritten. Ageless Era is an earlier project and people responsible for coding should change some ids.

A minor bug: witches and several other Dark Elves have 100% defense on unwalkable terrain.

I am going to check it.

-Allow te ai to summon
I'm thinking of a special chance to give a unit with summon ability the satus 'gurdian'. Then we make a ai turn with a nested side turn event (first_time_only=yes). In this side turn, we'll check, if the ai is able to summon, so if it's got enough gold, moves and attacks. I don't know when to fire this chance, but I think, in villiages, there should be a bigger chance.

I have thought about it too. I would make a side turn effect, which creates random number between 0 and 1 and stores it into a variable. Then if there are units with the summon ability, it filters, choose some of them and if the random variable is equal to "1", will initiate artificial summoning procedure. I can do this.

-Balance the Summoner
I allways wins, if I play with them and ai, too, expect against the Loyalists. When I've got time, I'll compare all the units (and correct the calculation above about Hidden Face, Battle Mages and White Warriors, like IPS noticed)

If you do it, I will be very grateful to you.

-Allow to undo summon

Good idea. It won't be easy, but I give it try.

-Another era system
I'd suggest to have three random factions

Sure. I like this idea.

-Balancing the third gate and make the second gate in magic masters available so they are still usefull (maybe about 40 experience?)

This is not an important thing now. We should focus on the proposals you've mentioned.

[fog_of_gold]

-Allow te ai to summon
I'm thinking of a special chance to give a unit with summon ability the satus 'gurdian'. Then we make a ai turn with a nested side turn event (first_time_only=yes). In this side turn, we'll check, if the ai is able to summon, so if it's got enough gold, moves and attacks. I don't know when to fire this chance, but I think, in villiages, there should be a bigger chance.

I have thought about it too. I would make a side turn effect, which creates random number between 0 and 1 and stores it into a variable. Then if there are units with the summon ability, it filters, choose some of them and if the random variable is equal to "1", will initiate artificial summoning procedure. I can do this.

We should make it more comlpex. We should increase the chance, if the unit is on a village and weneed to make something so the ai won't choose a tile near a castle to summon. I'm thinking of getting the nearest castle of the leader, which decrease the chance to start summining as far as the unit is near to this castle. All other 'homecastles' will have a positive effect(to save allies and defeat enemies). Maybe about this formula:
a=b/c
a: effect of the castle: This will multiplied with the current chance to start summon
b: map size: multiply both, x and y of the map and then, take the second root
c: the distance between the castle and the unit. Use the formula 'a²+b²=c²': distance=2nd root of (x²+y²)

-Allow to undo summon

Good idea. It won't be easy, but I give it try.

But that's, like the 3rd gate, unimportant. So let's first take a look to the other problems.

-Another era system
I'd suggest to have three random factions

Sure. I like this idea.

Only an information: That isn't my idea. I've 'stolen' it from the Path of Summoners.

[inferno8]

We should make it more comlpex.

Let's start with something easy and then make it more and more complicated. At the end this script will be huge.

My exams are over now, so I have a lot of free time and I am going to work on new graphics updates. I want to prepare something special for Era's 2nd birthday (23 Febuary). Also the campaign needs a lot of work (only 3 missions are done). I am not sure whether coding simulated artificial intelligence (s.a.i) is too much for me in this situation. It would be good, if a 3rd person joined us (if we want to make this s.a.i as soon as possible).

[fog_of_gold]

We should make it more comlpex.

Let's start with something easy and then make it more and more complicated. At the end this script will be huge.

Of course, the code will be huge and of course, we should start with something easy, but at the end, the ai should be able to use this usefull.

I'll see if get a 'take the nth root'-macro work (as far as I know, there isn't any possibility to do this without macro)

My exams are over now, so I have a lot of free time and I am going to work on new graphics updates. I want to prepare something special for Era's 2nd birthday (23 Febuary). Also the campaign needs a lot of work (only 3 missions are done).

Ok then work on this; especially the campaigns. They are imprtant to get tactics about high-leveled creatures so don't worry about story, I'd prefer having much scenarios.

I am not sure whether coding simulated artificial intelligence (s.a.i) is too much for me in this situation.

Then let's do in another situation. Don't hurry.

It would be good, if a 3rd person joined us (if we want to make this s.a.i as soon as possible).

Yes, would be great having another coder.

[wesfreak]

Hold on a second: A faction isn't unbalanced because you win against ai. Ai is normally much weaker than the average player, so if you give the ai summoners and play a different faction yourself and lose multiple times then that would be a good sign that they need to be changed.

Water elementals are a bit overpowered though: more damage than an elf shamen in both melee and ranged and slow in both melee and ranged (making it and especially the higher levels almost impossible to kill), instead of just ranged like elf shamen with a super good movetype: it is as good as an average land unit on land but also has 60% def in water.
I suggest you use a merman's movetype and take away slow from either melee or ranged so that way it's a bit easier to kill. Also, I think it should have better defense in swamp (it has 20% and 3 movement) because swamp is still very wet (maybe 50% def and 2 movement if you want it to be worse in swamp than in water or just 60% and 1 movement like the merman)

[fog_of_gold]

Hold on a second: A faction isn't unbalanced because you win against ai. Ai is normally much weaker than the average player, so if you give the ai summoners and play a different faction yourself and lose multiple times then that would be a good sign that they need to be changed.

Well, the real problem is, that a give me same starting troops and then, I'll win not being able to test, how strong or weak summoning is. Now, I understood, where the trouble is: This faction is underpowered in small maps while being too strong in big maps. I normally don't play in small maps so it looked for me to be very strong. The summoners get their power by leveling so we need to decrease that. The level 3 summoner are a little bit to strong with their leadership. That was a bad idea of me. Instead of this, it would be better to give some experience while summoning allthough it doesn't fit into that game unfortunatly.

Water elementals are a bit overpowered though: more damage than an elf shamen in both melee and ranged and slow in both melee and ranged (making it and especially the higher levels almost impossible to kill), instead of just ranged like elf shamen with a super good movetype: it is as good as an average land unit on land but also has 60% def in water.
I suggest you use a merman's movetype and take away slow from either melee or ranged so that way it's a bit easier to kill. Also, I think it should have better defense in swamp (it has 20% and 3 movement) because swamp is still very wet (maybe 50% def and 2 movement if you want it to be worse in swamp than in water or just 60% and 1 movement like the merman)

Maybe OK. But I wouldn't like to have 2 movecosts in flat. Don't forget, that it's got a large fire vulnerable, a often used attack. I think, all elements are too strong. It could be, that they'll be better balanced, when we decrease all stats (hitpoints, attacks, moves) by about 15%. But If I'm true, I didn't test all these with math so that are just my feelings. Another not tested change-suggestion, is, to give fire elements drain and decrease their hitpoints to avoid their tank-like using.

[fog_of_gold]

Finally, I've made some calculations about the Dimensional Gates:
Gate

"Stats":

Hitpoints=15
Movement=4
Cost=15
Attack one=5-2, magic, melee
average resistence in WML=~61.667
average movementcost (guessed)=~1.2
average defence=50

Defence Power=15/61.667%/50%=48.648
Defence Power per Cost=3.243
Power=~1,135.135
Power per Cost=~75.676

Elvish Fighter

"Stats":

Hitpoints=33
Movement=5
Cost=14
Attack one=5-4, melee
Attack two=3-3, ranged
average resistence in WML=~101.667
average movementcost (guessed)=~1.7
average defence (in WML; guessed)=60

Defence Power=54.098
Defence Power per Cost=3.864
Power=~4,614.272
Power per Cost=~329.591

That tells us a lot:
-The Gate is a decent Tank. It's got nearly the same like elvish fighter.
-The Gate is very strong in attack: 14/29=~50% of the Elvish fighter
-The %s of the Power are about the same like the Power/Cost --> Theoretically balanced.

So a suggestions of me to improve balancing is, to set the cost to 6 while hitpoints to 8. The attack should be about 3-3, not magic

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Unfortunatly I understood, that it isn't very easy to calculate the power of the Dimensional Gates because balancing isn't, when you won't win or loose with one unit, it's if you are able to win or loose allways, in the same difficults, in the same conditions. If I want to get the power of Dimensional Gates, I have to include all units of the summoner. Sorry, but I'm to lazy doing this. It'd need less time to balance it manual; with humans.


**********Other units will follow***********

[inferno8]

The level 3 summoner are a little bit to strong with their leadership. That was a bad idea of me. Instead of this, it would be better to give some experience while summoning allthough it doesn't fit into that game unfortunatly.

I'd suggest removing leadership and increasing experience points from lvl2 to lvl3 and 4.

Water elementals are a bit overpowered

I'll try to change some movement costs.

I think, all elements are too strong. It could be, that they'll be better balanced, when we decrease all stats (hitpoints, attacks, moves) by about 15%.

I can do this for testing.

Another not tested change-suggestion, is, to give fire elements drain and decrease their hitpoints to avoid their tank-like using.

You're playing with fire Giving drain to unit which has the best resistance against the most common damage type in the era is very risky, even while reducing hitpoints.

(About Dimensional Gate)So a suggestions of me to improve balancing is, to set the cost to 6 while hitpoints to 8. The attack should be about 3-3, not magic

As you wish.

If I want to get the power of Dimensional Gates, I have to include all units of the summoner. Sorry, but I'm to lazy doing this.

No problem. I understand.

Currently I am working on new graphics for Kharos. The new version is going to be released on 23th Febuary, but it is very possible that an earlier version will come out, including all those balancing changes.

[fog_of_gold]

Spoiler:

The level 3 summoner are a little bit to strong with their leadership. That was a bad idea of me. Instead of this, it would be better to give some experience while summoning allthough it doesn't fit into that game unfortunatly.

I'd suggest removing leadership

Yes. Would be important

Spoiler:

and increasing experience points from lvl2 to lvl3 and 4.

Are you talking about the maximum experience? Hmm, should be good, but only if we give experience after a summon. I'd suggest the same like the level (level 3: 3 experience poits; level 4: 4 experience points)

Spoiler:

I think, all elements are too strong. It could be, that they'll be better balanced, when we decrease all stats (hitpoints, attacks, moves) by about 15%.

I can do this for testing.

Maybe you could upload the file with the change in it here so we it's a little bit easier to remove if there are some bad ideas.

Spoiler:

Another not tested change-suggestion, is, to give fire elements drain and decrease their hitpoints to avoid their tank-like using.

You're playing with fire Giving drain to unit which has the best resistance against the most common damage type in the era is very risky, even while reducing hitpoints.

You are right. Let's move it into the wait list

Spoiler:

(About Dimensional Gate)So a suggestions of me to improve balancing is, to set the cost to 6 while hitpoints to 8. The attack should be about 3-3, not magic

As you wish.

I'd suggest, too, like above, that you only upload the three files. I don't know if there's a decent chance to just include the files and change things, but if it is easy possible, it would be nice to do so.

Spoiler:

Currently I am working on new graphics for Kharos. The new version is going to be released on 23th Febuary, but it is very possible that an earlier version will come out, including all those balancing changes.

Great. I hope, you'll make the teleport animations a little bit more fluent. (Maybe with making the old picture slowly disapearing and then let the new picture slowly appearing, like ghosts?)

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I found some informations to have the Dimensional Gates animated while level up:

Spoiler:

[levelin_anim] is an animation with the following parameters automatically set
apply_to=levelin
[levelout_anim] is an animation with the following parameters automatically set apply_to=levelout

and:

Spoiler:

levelin
This animation is triggered whenever the unit levels, before the unit is replaced by the new unit

value= is not used, and always contains 0

value_second= is not used, and always contains 0

if no animation is available, the default uses the standing animation(s) with blend_with="1~0:600" blend_color=255,255,255

levelout
This animation is triggered whenever the unit levels, after the unit is replaced by the new unit

value= is not used, and always contains 0

value_second= is not used, and always contains 0

if no animation is available, the default uses the standing animation(s) with blend_with="0~1:600" blend_color=255,255,255

[inferno8]

I found some informations to have the Dimensional Gates animated while level up:

Yeah, I know these two tags. Thanks.

Ok, here is the pack with changed configuration files for Summoners.

-using the summon ability delays leveling up (+4 to max experience per summon);
-water elementals have merman's movetype with small modification: flat=1;
-new statistics for Dimensional Gates lvl1 and 2;
-about elementals: decreased hitpoints and increased experience.

[fog_of_gold]

-using the summon ability delays leveling up (+4 to max experience per summon

I thought about the opposite way: I thought about giving some experience to the current experience to make the summoner faster level up. Now, you'll use the summoner more than before only if it'll only get AMLA to summon. That was the point I wanted to avoid. Another thing is, that you need to tell the player, that he got experience. I'd suggest a dark blue for the text colour.

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If you get time, motivation and the right ideas, it would be nice, if you make a special, empty folder, which'll have your change testing file including them into your eras to change the eras.

EDIT:
You forgot to change the hitpoints of the second gate.

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I didn't test much with the new changes, but it looks like the first gate need to have 6 (in Default settings: 4) max experience to avoid being not able to level up after killing

EDIT:
Other bugs: You are able to summon fire elements in water. Sometimes you may need that, but I'd suggest to make a warning message or maybe another menu item; maybe in a colour between red and blue with a little text like: "Summon fire element (Won't be able to move)"

[inferno8]

I thought about the opposite way: I thought about giving some experience to the current experience to make the summoner faster level up. Now, you'll use the summoner more than before only if it'll only get AMLA to summon. That was the point I wanted to avoid. Another thing is, that you need to tell the player, that he got experience. I'd suggest a dark blue for the text colour.

Sorry for that. I was in a hurry. Now it should work as intended.

You forgot to change the hitpoints of the second gate.

Fixed.

You are able to summon fire elements in water.

I disabled summoning on wet surfaces. An explanation is simple: a summoning circle needs to be drawn on stable ground.

If you get time, motivation and the right ideas, it would be nice, if you make a special, empty folder, which'll have your change testing file including them into your eras to change the eras.

It won't be easy. I must figure out how to disable cfgs and overwrite them with of that folder's content. But I'll make this feature in the future.