Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.33

[Ravana]

No need to be. You could have let the post remain, other people might want to report same thing else.

[bokcvok]

Yay so happy you are working on Ageless Era again! thx Ravana

[Gidian]

Thankyou so much for making this! I now will be unable to play anything else for at least a month, haha! Just wish you could include the Complete Default Campaign thing with the Monster faction. I see the Gryphon and Dragon in the unit list when I play local games against the AI, but I don't do the campaign so I never get to use them xD

If this had dragons in it, my life would be complete and I could die happy.

[Ravana]

As those monsters are mostly core units, if there is interest, then they can be added to EE group.

[IPS]

Well this seems it has not been too active since I've gone out of wesnoth. I'm back again to see how it's going and see if I can give stats feedbacks about units that I consider disbalanced on here (again).

[Jaeherys]

Hello everyone! Yesterday, while playing a game of Colosseum with Ageless RPG, I was complaining loudly about how there were so many units in Ageless that lack a unit description despite being fully sprited, coded, etc. This bugs me a lot because I think a well-written description is probably the easiest way to give a unit individuality and 'flavor,' certainly easier than coding the unit itself. Ravana approached me shortly afterwards, having read the chatlog, and informed me that there were many completely abandoned eras in Ageless that he would welcome descriptions for. To that end I have created a document on Googledocs containing a list of the units I'm working on and my proposed descriptions for them. I've started on the Mercenaries Era because it is both inactive and has the greatest dearth of descriptions. Out of the Mercenaries Era itself, the Blight don't have a single description at all, so I began with them and have already written a few. I have enabled commenting on the googledoc so anyone who is interested can put their criticism, point out grammatical eras, etc. Thanks everyone, I am very excited to contribute to the Ageless Era and the Wesnoth community.

http://tinyurl.com/JaeherysDesc

[Ravana]

I intend to release next version around next weekend.

[IPS]

Would like to give as sugestion

1.- giving Steelhive Welder fire resistance from -20% to 0%
2.- giving Steelhive Repairer fore resistance from -20% to +20%

Reassons
a) balances faction's general fire weaknesses
b) Welders and Repairers usually works with fire and it is rasonable they gain a fire resistance considering this.

[Ravana]

I am unable to take default complete era monsters faction in. I would need to create the faction from scratch as there is neither default nor rpg style [multiplayer_side]. Maybe in the future, unless someone else wishes to deal with that faction.

There is hope though.


Monsters faction will be included, however not really like original.

[nooby]

Default:
Ravana, if I understood correctly this is what you wanted
Leaders: Dread Bat,DC Great Wolf,Ogre,DC Gryphon,DC Water Serpent,DC Cuttle Fish

Recruits: DC Giant Rat,DC Giant Scorpion,DC Fire Guardian,DC Mudcrawler,DC Giant Mudcrawler,DC Tentacle of the Deep,Vampire Bat,Blood Bat,DC Wolf,Young Ogre

Age of heroes:

Leaders: DC Giant Spider,DC Sea Serpent,Direwolf

Recruits: Dread Bat,DC Great Wolf,Ogre,DC Gryphon,DC Water Serpent,DC Cuttle Fish,DC Giant Rat,DC Giant Scorpion,DC Fire Guardian,DC Mudcrawler,DC Giant Mudcrawler,DC Tentacle of the Deep,Vampire Bat,Blood Bat,DC Wolf,Young Ogre

Units without proper trees:
DC Gryphon,DC Giant Spider,DC Fire Guardian,DC Giant Rat,
DC Giant Scorpion, Fire Drake, Skeletal drake, Yeti

[Computer_Player]

I was playing a game of 1 v 1 Ageless and well, the Mechanic in Machinist(?) era is grossly OP should the enemy not have any fire resistance at all. No, not even negative resistence, just 0% default fire resis is enough to make it clean house. Maybe even 10 resists.

The reason for this is primarily its 30-1 fire grenade attackonly attack (5 dmg splash on surrounding hexes). Imagine if you're up against a faction with negative fire resists like undead.. it can one shot even some level 2 units.. and then some.

It had for melee, impact, pierce AND blade all at around 12 dmg total, this combined with its resists and dwarf mvtype means its guaranteed to provide decent melee retaliation.

It also had +5 repair, healing the factions' mechanical units.

Finally if this was not bad enough, all this can be had for the low low price of 16 gold. (to be fair, its mv is 4, but that's par for a dwarf, it can get quick anyway). You can literally use these units as a kamikaze unit and exchange units until the enemy is attrition-ed to oblivion.

Recommendations:

1. Reduce grenade to around 17 dmg. Yup, the balanced amount is I think almost half the current one. At least with this it's still really fearsome attacking unit, but its not that far from the Thunderer Default unit (which is pricier at 17 gold).
2. Reduce grenade fire damage to 3. This is because its undodgeable (compared to Omen area effect attack).
3. Increase price to 17. 16 gold for this guy is absurd since its already a lot more stronger than Thunderer- even if the damage is reduced by point 1.

The melee attacks are ok and give the unit flavor. I really like this unit actually, it's just that its horribly unbalanced right now.

P.S. Omen noretal attack makes minced-meat of berserkers AND still does the areaeffect attack which I think is also unbalanced. In the original EoMa the attack does not work this way against beserkers (it has retal OR it is simply unusable).

Looking forward to next iterations, and thanks for the work

[Ravana]

Mechanic is already dealt with, http://pastebin.com/qjz7bU2z

I will try to reduce berserks with area attack, but I rather have it be antiberserker than not work on berserkers at all. Will not get to todays version though.

[SiegeTank]

I was playing a game of 1 v 1 Ageless and well, the Mechanic in Machinist(?) era is grossly OP should the enemy not have any fire resistance at all. No, not even negative resistence, just 0% default fire resis is enough to make it clean house. Maybe even 10 resists.

The reason for this is primarily its 30-1 fire grenade attackonly attack (5 dmg splash on surrounding hexes). Imagine if you're up against a faction with negative fire resists like undead.. it can one shot even some level 2 units.. and then some.

It had for melee, impact, pierce AND blade all at around 12 dmg total, this combined with its resists and dwarf mvtype means its guaranteed to provide decent melee retaliation.

It also had +5 repair, healing the factions' mechanical units.

Finally if this was not bad enough, all this can be had for the low low price of 16 gold. (to be fair, its mv is 4, but that's par for a dwarf, it can get quick anyway). You can literally use these units as a kamikaze unit and exchange units until the enemy is attrition-ed to oblivion.

Recommendations:

1. Reduce grenade to around 17 dmg. Yup, the balanced amount is I think almost half the current one. At least with this it's still really fearsome attacking unit, but its not that far from the Thunderer Default unit (which is pricier at 17 gold).
2. Reduce grenade fire damage to 3. This is because its undodgeable (compared to Omen area effect attack).
3. Increase price to 17. 16 gold for this guy is absurd since its already a lot more stronger than Thunderer- even if the damage is reduced by point 1.

The melee attacks are ok and give the unit flavor. I really like this unit actually, it's just that its horribly unbalanced right now.

P.S. Omen noretal attack makes minced-meat of berserkers AND still does the areaeffect attack which I think is also unbalanced. In the original EoMa the attack does not work this way against beserkers (it has retal OR it is simply unusable).

Looking forward to next iterations, and thanks for the work

Hey thank you for the suggestions.
Runemasters were rebalanced a few weeks ago so some changes will be coming with the next patch:).
A little spoiler: the damage was indeed reduced to 15:)

However when it comes to balance you need to not only look at unit balance but at faction balance as a whole
Their units were more expensive as a whole, also they had only low , but hybrid damage on most of their units. This essentially made this unit the only offensive unit who helped them stay competitive.
The reason being if you have too many hybrid units, while they are good on the defence, (have retaliation against any units) but they are also really bad at offense and concentrated fire. The way wesnoth works is that you (if people position properly their units) Shouldnt really be able to hit a unit with more then 2 units. Which means that the killing power of a faction without strong concentrated damage is non-existent, yes you damage the enemy units, they retreat and heal it. While in return they attack your units, focus one of them at a time with their high(for level 1 ) 24-7 damage attacks and 2 of them is sometimes enough to kill your unit.
Actually mechanic is a perfect example of that.

However i think there are a few things u need to consider with regards to the mechanic.
1. they have no ranged retaliation (while you have 30 damage in attack you have no retaliation) So overall if you are talking about this unit facing another unit with ranged attack (lets say thunderer as u mentioned it)
It would do 30 damage on attack and 0 on defence (and depending on how many times the unit is attacked by the enemy the overall possible damage done will be much lower than the thunderer)
Now you have thunderer who got attacked by 30 damage, he in retaliation does 18 damage, and then its his turn to attack, when he attacks he does another 18 damage, hence overall for this turn the thunderer did 36 damage compared to the 30 damage from the mechanic. However if the thunderer is attacked more then 1 time, that would increase the difference to 48 damage etc.

2. if the mechanic misses the grenade attack does no damage so clever use of mechanic is required.(which might not be optimal sometimes). You want to target units with low defence to make full use of the effect. However this leads to the next point. (About this point. that's the case about grenade at least in

3.if the mechanic hits, he does 5 damage to itself too. So overall in the scenario i described before against the thunderer the mechanic would have dealt still 30 damage, while he'd have taken 36 damage from the thunderer + 5 from the grenade area of effect summing it up to 41 damage.

Now you might think "ok well 41 damage vs 30 damage it is clear that the mechanic sux", this however is not the case. And that was my point about offensive vs hybrid/defensive units. Offensive units pack a lot of punch in one type of attack (melee or ranged) , while defensive units are able to retaliate to multiple types however if a faction has only defensive units, and doesnt have any offensive power(like runemasters) then they suffer a lot because of that. Reason being - killing power. If you don't manage to kill a unit in 2-3 attack your enemy will just heal/withdraw that unit and get the upper hand, while in return he'd have killed one of yours due to his high attack units that focused one of your units. winning overall in the trade. And since he keeps focusing your units, he does much more damage overall that you could possibly do to him.

So overall people need to focus the mecahnics the same way people would focus a mage.

Now about the overall balance of Runmasters, you have a faction where the majority of your units do quite low but hybrid damage, couple that with the fact that they have no fast units to lock enemies or to scout better then your opponent (their scout is worse than the default and EE scouts)And you have quite an underpowered faction (with the exception of the strong offensive power of that the mechanic brings)
This however lead to the desire of having armies including a lot of mechanics(to be your offensive units) and in turn made players overlook some of the less cost efficient units (just because of the hybrid damage you didn't see the results they did).
However if people were to ever face a fire resistant faction, they didnt stand much chance since their main source of offensive damage would have be gone (and the opposite as u mentioned against factions highly vulnerable to fire)

All things considered the faction was rebalanced to be less centred around mechanics(as an offensive units by redesigning him as support unit) and more centred around your core units.

P.S About the omen we'll take a look at it.

Thank you again for your comments, and keep them coming:P . I might not be able to reply to all of them in the same manner and depth, but any constructive suggestions/comments are considered carefully, thus helping us make Ageless much better. Also bug reports help too, so if you encounter any do not hesitate to mention it here.





P.P.S. Got ninja'd , Ravana always does that:S

[Ravana]

Ageless Era 4.14 is out on the 1.12 add-on server

Code: Select all

Version 4.14:
* Eras and Factions
    * NEW: Nordhris to EotF
    * NEW: Monsters to EE
    * Merged EE Sylvans to EoC
* Graphics
    * Placeholder projectiles to many units
* Extensive changes
    * Whites, Phantoms, Elementals, Runemasters, Minotaurs, Frozen, Sylvans, Issaelfr, Brungar, Triththa, Clockwork, Orcei, Khthon balance by SiegeTank
    * Avians, Blight, Cult, Emperors Guard, Enchanters, Equestrians, Highlanders, Hive, Slavers, Tribe projectiles and sounds by tommy2teeth
    * Vector and Enthrallment massively weakened
* Bug Fixes
    * Runelaying does not prevent undo anymore
    * Dwarf Smith leveling does not end game anymore
* Other
    * Immediate era version check of all player at start
    * <span color='orange'>This start message will only be shown once. After that it can be opened by selecting and deselecting your unit quickly several times</span>

Full notes

AE_stf_triththa_Runesmith removed from smith advance
Added missing amla to AE_chs_chaos_empire_Sharpshooter
in Ageless_Era/factions/heroes/heroes-EoC.cfg, line 86, Nightshade Fire should be AE_chs_sylvians_Eventide_Dancer
primeval names have got corrupted with AE_ AE_artarc_kh - hopefully fixed
fixed AE_efm_whites_storm_Witch to AE_efm_whites_Storm_Witch
But for starters, I do know that the entire Mercenaries Era has no projectiles for any of its units. - added generic arrow projectile
make sure all people have same ageless version based on EoHS, include version check version.lua is needed
vampire portraits use transparent
master of fire to lawful
maritial artist cost 17->14
water elemental less movement on flat, not avatar, elemental xp 26->36
FE golem has no attack image - icon=attacks/shield-lavinian-silver.png
remove clockwork steel bird from leaders
EoC smasher->crusher loses resist on advance
wonderful jinn to 8-4
darklander beastskull to heroes recruit
EFM heroes has ballista twice, but no bolter
enchanters protection->not affect high resists
ceresian pikeman -> halberdier give hp
welkin patriarch female
remove khthon toad from random leader rpg - check that kamikazes are also removed
why apothecary so slow and herbalist so fast, practitioner hp 46
arendian arrow wind ranged attack animation - added same as for ME, did same for Brungar
test EFM imperialist standard --- spelling...
vampier
steelhive broadcast description level
EE chaos lesser demon cost to 18
wyverns amla to 150
fanatic thief resist - reduced weaknesses, for minoutaur float too
reduce eoma avatar xp
orcish nightblade has AE_ext_orcs_ in name
archaic heroes primeval hastate to peltast
EoMa roc master xp
oracle scrapshifter damage
master of water swamp def
why high elves horse archer upgrade limited - enabled
shadow mage, shadow lord cost lowered
lowered high level welkin costs
Tharis hunters buffed
fire ant add fire resist
crocodile rider xp 65->100
goblin rouser xp 50->100
check freezing aura description -- changed ability to be as described
I should add it in description that hex doesnt work on leaders
check northern orc wanderer amla - has normal amla too
archaic wanderer heal description on enemies - added that on friendly
FE high elf: glavier to heroes recruit, captain to leader, removed recruit mermaids
megacircle leadership affect allies
oracle sage hp, blindman xp
steel sparkgazer too good
steel welder too weak
steel larva might need lower xp
runic spell image
fix inferenai to infernai
shorten visible faction names for host
make ABILITY_AE_WATER allow more terrains
check frozen trait
reduce frozen weaknesses each levelup
frozen golem make move better in hills
make sure despair is playable - at least make castle mp 1
lower ME beetle forest mp cost, maybe others too
runelaying labels visible_in_fog=no -- reported oos yet I couldnt replicate - test runes with levelup # but why advance? kill off and recreate -- couldnt manage to understand enough EoHS lua to get all possible unit variables - transform instead of advancing --- try rewrite it all by variable structures instead, fix runes and orocia def for reef, try write 1.13.1+ runelaying with objects no_write=yes and advancing to remove it, make sure rune +max hp is not abusable ---- conditional weapon special/ability added at start of turn, check for any unprotected moveto or enter leave hex - deal with runelaying
eoc physical endurance removes slow(check poison and other status)
remove duplicate steelhive amla macros
change steelhive sentient amlas to not rely on attack name
add menagerie manbot and everything related, manbot recruitable, gales
statue time limit
remove assimilation from cyborgs
remove initial [message ], if I can figure out how to, the message will go to lua so player AND observer can fire it only when he wants; if I cant, then I will just use global variables to keep track if you have already seen the message, consider select event / setting with id including version number, defaulting to show messages
show start message once eohs-like way
triplestrike and beam can damage petrified units, look pierce too, and what happens with xp. granade, cleave
archaic update http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 40#p587762
use EoM elementals unicorn, for monsters maybe
deal with archaic statues shadows
cleave def description - made work on def
limited some custom amlas amounts
give EoM messanger halo, ceresian metropolitan, avians dove illuminates halo -- gave messanger inspire instead
steelhive knockback, not knock to or through impassable
latch jumps to wrong hex
eoma troll xp, troll leader description is needlessly confusing
consider old mummy images for level 2, use mummy-unbound-attack.png, lower level 0 mummy hp
mummy penumbra doesnt work on dusk
mummy: http://pastebin.com/ht66GbdK
heroes cost: http://pastebin.com/bZPHZGpv
whites: http://pastebin.com/bDyfNh34
http://pastebin.com/ethRWSyK - that bug was for 2 factions in ME
elementals: http://pastebin.com/mp5HvDDy
Made EoMa repair stackable
EoMa rune lord resists are ridiculous
runemasters: http://pastebin.com/qjz7bU2z
minoutaur: http://pastebin.com/YumBve1w
frozen-general: http://pastebin.com/4EAESYBM
elves: http://pastebin.com/dn25gq2t
issaelfr: http://pastebin.com/DYQNZgRc
brungar: http://pastebin.com/zy6n98xH
SH welder and repairer http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 74#p588389
herbalist and preactitioner given more strikes like IPS suggested
ice rune improver damages..
EoMa mystical warrior impact addition
EoS automaton line removed, moved, and renamed
some triththa http://pastebin.com/6jRNMzE4
clockwork: http://pastebin.com/nVHdRAY0
orcei: http://pastebin.com/m0HptEKm
increase vapor cost to 5, vapor description cost, base_unit, vapor can immediately attack after recruit
EFM - Sea States alchemist needs to be easier to level
check lightshifter change into leader, observer can fire lightshifter message, lightshifter zoc ellipse - give skirmisher to adjacent enemies, unless any real unit with zoc is controlling that hex -- just gave it same zoc as the one it tries to be
1.13 nor 1.12.5 does NOT want @ -- removed with great regret
ME mercenaries slasher pierce resist
EoMa mara standing animation, strange behaviour happens only if you have haloing effects off
heavy and grand summoner hammer, check full tree
archaic deckmaster slow attack stronger.. 14-2
EoS dwarvish smith power
When night begins, Master of Darkness is the most powerful unit in the game. - EFM has 16-4, so here I must have at least 17-4
drones cost including heroes, even if getting moved to dark legion
plague descriptions - override default macro
descriptions from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1stM ... lmCM4/edit
merge EE and EoC sylvans, just move wose shaman to EoC
blue mage seems a lot weaker than blue engineer, blue novice seems weak too, reduce engineer assimilation attack damage
make enthrall not depend on race, but special
vector, enthrall not on rpg
vector require less than 30% of max hp
remove zoc from khthon thralls
reduce thrall %hp
khthon lower resists
http://pastebin.com/aMMHedux khthon
removed vector from toads and ducks
vector help description
leadership to anakes daemon
SH knockback not knock to hex movecost is over 19
bull speed lowered
EotF Nordhris to rpg and heroes and integrate, to randoms list
I believe I saw one addon with baby yeti... see if I can recolor BEEM bigfoot
dark warrior more damage slayer
give flat to tentacle
some ranged spiders
use some EoM elementals
there is 1.10 scorpion image, one can be level 2
skeletal dragon as alternate advance from normal dragon
enthrall village
Version numbers to 4.14
added sidhe bears to heroes
Nordhris balance: http://pastebin.com/4AX7N9yT
if poison then http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... on#p555863 and not in rpg, there default poison, include both specials, but conditional
change description to bleeding
enthrallment work only on your own turn, vector might still happen on attacker
Arendian druid sprite is replaced by warlock in fight.
Dark thudnerblade as possible progression from shdowdancer(level 4 of it).
Shadowdancer exp requirement to level 4 from level 3 increased to 180 from 100(alma)
ice seal image file name
removed get_hit_sound=
units/monsters/spider-little2* images need fixing
monsters faction to EE http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php? ... 65#p586956 accepted not ready for inclusion, needs massive work http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 22#p588422
use_beta_features=yes
I want to revert to 1.10 mudcrawler images
EOS cuttlefish changed somehow
mind fog changed to be more understandable
This is custom unit. Its coding and art were done by Ravana, SiegeTank and various others.
fixed some faulty image references
coldwaves description and not in rpg
phantom archer xp+10
ST: drones http://pastebin.com/x6NdFTyz
latronis-venator mp-1
frenzy doesnt work
EoC chaos: http://pastebin.com/Y13hXrDg
Thanks to ChaosRider for monsters images
say that enthrallment doesnt conflict with creep war anymore
monsters faction lists, delete ogres unless said otherwise
ST: Monsters http://pastebin.com/hhKECWmT

How you can help

Leave feedback

Write descriptions to units in unmaintained suberas, mostly this is needed for Mercenaries Era units

Suggest interesting and complete factions for inclusion

Contributors for this release

IPS - Some balance suggestions.
Jaeherys - Unit descriptions for some Blight units.
SiegeTank - Huge amount of factions balance, most importantly for Nordhris and Monsters.
tommy2teeth - Many animation fixes.

Enthrallment does not interfere in creep war die event anymore.
unit_movement_cost lua error message can be ignored, this happens when there is no place for knockback so knockback doesnt happen.
Archaic Statue line(more specifically special AE_arc_stonegrip) is not usable with [unit] tag currently, unless manually given unit.variables.victim "aaa"

[RenoOfTurks]

As always, i'm here for acclaim the greatness of this Era !

Sadly i have too little time for develop this project as in the past : (