Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.33
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.14
Sugestion for Meganeire mechs and machinists:
1) making all machines into mechanical in order to decrease the amount of existing races in ageless and with the intention to favour PYR by allowing repairers from other factions to repair these machines.
2) making machinists and technician 'mech repairs' reworked to repairs+10 in order to allow them to repair all mechanical units from other factions to favour them in PYR.
That won't afect their funcionality in the faction, but would generalize their propierties to more units in AE.
1) making all machines into mechanical in order to decrease the amount of existing races in ageless and with the intention to favour PYR by allowing repairers from other factions to repair these machines.
2) making machinists and technician 'mech repairs' reworked to repairs+10 in order to allow them to repair all mechanical units from other factions to favour them in PYR.
That won't afect their funcionality in the faction, but would generalize their propierties to more units in AE.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.14
I plan to starting working on ageless once my exams are over. Release might be like 3 weeks from now.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.14
Starting working now. This release I want to get out in few days, and next one following after some weeks. Other than bugfixes and small changes I will include new units from Archaic.
https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... edited.txt will be showing what is done.
https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... edited.txt will be showing what is done.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.14
Would like in which conditions are actually being considered the devling balance, seems to be missing at here.
And yup, I'm back from being away of here from more than a month ago. Ready to see news about the ageless updates.
And yup, I'm back from being away of here from more than a month ago. Ready to see news about the ageless updates.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.14
For them I rely on your "Little devling rebalance".
Let me know if you have ideas how to call that arcane attack, or what animation to use.
It is difficult to deal with that some cases use filter_wml to search for trait mechanical, and some use race filter.
Most likely, release will be today. There has been basically no testing so expect bugfix release after few weeks. -- Tomorrow still, need to update orocia before.
Let me know if you have ideas how to call that arcane attack, or what animation to use.
Wont work, they have different traits. Used workaround though, try it out, might not work.Sugestion for Meganeire mechs and machinists: 1) making all machines into mechanical in order to decrease the amount of existing races in ageless and with the intention to favour PYR by allowing repairers from other factions to repair these machines. 2) making machinists and technician 'mech repairs' reworked to repairs+10 in order to allow them to repair all mechanical units from other factions to favour them in PYR. That won't afect their funcionality in the faction, but would generalize their propierties to more units in AE.
It is difficult to deal with that some cases use filter_wml to search for trait mechanical, and some use race filter.
Most likely, release will be today. There has been basically no testing so expect bugfix release after few weeks. -- Tomorrow still, need to update orocia before.
Last edited by Ravana on June 23rd, 2016, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Ageless Era 4.15 is out on the 1.12 add-on server
Code: Select all
Version 4.15:
* Units and Factions
* New units for Ukians, Khthon and Menagerie
* Water Dryad, Infernai berserkers, Therian Hunter made recruitable
* Graphics
* New images from Archaic Era
* New images from Era of Four Moons
* Added mistakenly deleted wind daemon images
* Fixed some missing attack icons
* Balance
* Devilings, Yokai by IPS
* Many small changes
* Bug Fixes
* Fixed Stone Statue line causing crash
* Removed knockback message on occupied hex
* Fixed Wisdomkeeper leadership level
* Vector 30% health limit
* Other
* Beta feature is publicly available now
Full notes
How you can help
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Comenting you can make Lunar Invader line as leaders, they aren't OP or strange, they could work fine as leaders.
Also noticing a unit got overbuffed at here, now is a way too strong.
The amount of damage is abusive, even for a no lv3 unit.
It's 24-2 mele & 18-3 ranged during neutral times.
It's 30-2 mele & 22-3 ranged during night.
Those damages are a way too extreme, would sugest something likely 10-2 & 7-3 considering it has backstab at both mele & ranged. Actually it has same damage than shadows at mele but an unnusually strong ranged with backstab aswell.
Edit: Tested an Orocia, Lunar Explorer line looks a way too weak. Needs lower price or just more strenght.
Feedback about them:
Lunar Explorer: somehow cost ineficent mele fighter. 28 hp, 6 MP and 5-3 blade mele or 7-2 arcane mele poison alike, lunar goo already poisons which decreases the usefulness of this line. Sugestion would be to reprice to 13g or raise health.
Lunar Invader: Looks underpowered right now, 7-3 blade mele and 10-2 arcane mele poison. Orcish Slayer is 6-3 ranged marskman poison and 9-2 mele. Lunar invader needs dagger damage of 8-3 and maybe 12-2 arcane mele poison (I'm not sure if more health also). Also by testing, costs to level up this unit due its low base damage.
Lunar Frogman: Curious unit, also it's underperforming a lot next to Lunar Exterminator. Nice 7 movement, exelent movement costs, but in damage terms is underperforming. Possible sugestions:
a) Dagger: recommended damage of 8-4, 9-4 or 10-4
b.1) Electric Lance: 16-2, 17-2 or 18-2
b.2) Electric Lance: 12-3 or 13-3
b.3) Electric Lance: 14-2 or 15-2 but with first strike (maybe electric, as well as in Steel Oculus)
Keeping in mind it's 7 MP unit, also a movement can be taken away in order to add some more damage (or maybe toughtness)
OR JUST ADING electric special to the whole lunar explorer line, which would make them more in the support role.
Lunar Exterminator: Fairly most balanced unit in the lunar explorer line. But I think that 11-3 or 12-3 ranged would fit better for balance.
Also noticing a unit got overbuffed at here, now is a way too strong.
The amount of damage is abusive, even for a no lv3 unit.
It's 24-2 mele & 18-3 ranged during neutral times.
It's 30-2 mele & 22-3 ranged during night.
Those damages are a way too extreme, would sugest something likely 10-2 & 7-3 considering it has backstab at both mele & ranged. Actually it has same damage than shadows at mele but an unnusually strong ranged with backstab aswell.
Edit: Tested an Orocia, Lunar Explorer line looks a way too weak. Needs lower price or just more strenght.
Feedback about them:
Lunar Explorer: somehow cost ineficent mele fighter. 28 hp, 6 MP and 5-3 blade mele or 7-2 arcane mele poison alike, lunar goo already poisons which decreases the usefulness of this line. Sugestion would be to reprice to 13g or raise health.
Lunar Invader: Looks underpowered right now, 7-3 blade mele and 10-2 arcane mele poison. Orcish Slayer is 6-3 ranged marskman poison and 9-2 mele. Lunar invader needs dagger damage of 8-3 and maybe 12-2 arcane mele poison (I'm not sure if more health also). Also by testing, costs to level up this unit due its low base damage.
Lunar Frogman: Curious unit, also it's underperforming a lot next to Lunar Exterminator. Nice 7 movement, exelent movement costs, but in damage terms is underperforming. Possible sugestions:
a) Dagger: recommended damage of 8-4, 9-4 or 10-4
b.1) Electric Lance: 16-2, 17-2 or 18-2
b.2) Electric Lance: 12-3 or 13-3
b.3) Electric Lance: 14-2 or 15-2 but with first strike (maybe electric, as well as in Steel Oculus)
Keeping in mind it's 7 MP unit, also a movement can be taken away in order to add some more damage (or maybe toughtness)
OR JUST ADING electric special to the whole lunar explorer line, which would make them more in the support role.
Lunar Exterminator: Fairly most balanced unit in the lunar explorer line. But I think that 11-3 or 12-3 ranged would fit better for balance.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
I feel like I must comment on the changes made to the Khthon faction.
Removing the vector attack from some of the recruitable units doesn't really make sense to me, and sort of ruins the roleplay aspect of the faction.
If it was merely a question of balancing the faction, might I suggest lowering resistances or something less drastic than removing attacks that change the entire defensive strategy of the faction.
Khthon have a variety of weaknesses as it is:
1. No ranged attack, all their power is restricted to melee attacks, making them easy to pick off as individual units.
2. Very vulnerable to arcane attacks. A thrall/vector can have up to -80% resistance to arcane, making any thralls/vectors that aren't made from human units, or units with preexisting resistance to arcane a joke.
3. Problems with the economy of thralls. If you enthrall a lvl 3 unit for example, you are paying an expensive price for a greatly weakened unit. There is no option to release a thrall from this control, and you must manually suicide them if that option is available to you. Ideally, it should be possible to release a thrall for xp to the unit that originally enthralled it.
4. It takes a great amount of skill and effort to create favorable conditions for vector. The Khthon unit must be under 12 hp, and the enemy unit must be under 30% hp to even use the vector attack, and even if these conditions are satisfied, the attack can still miss, it's not like it's a magical attack or anything like that.
A miss usually means certain death for the Khthon unit.
5. In the current edition of ageless, Terrapin have essentially been rendered useless without the vector attack, which really only exist as a defensive unit to begin with. These low hp units are best suited for use of the vector attack, and have no zone of control, so they are not suited for most defensive activities. At best, you can put one in a village and set it to hide in its shell for higher resistances and hp.
6. For those still claiming Khthon is OP, I submit to you that they are practically worthless against the undead, or any factions immune to the plague attack. A single ghost can cause so many problems for a group of Khthon units. In fact, the general heuristic for fighting Khthon is as follows:
a. Use ranged attacks, preferably arcane for the initial damage to a Khthon unit.
b. Finish it off with a melee attack so it has absolutely no chance to vector you.
I hope this feedback is helpful and productive.
Removing the vector attack from some of the recruitable units doesn't really make sense to me, and sort of ruins the roleplay aspect of the faction.
If it was merely a question of balancing the faction, might I suggest lowering resistances or something less drastic than removing attacks that change the entire defensive strategy of the faction.
Khthon have a variety of weaknesses as it is:
1. No ranged attack, all their power is restricted to melee attacks, making them easy to pick off as individual units.
2. Very vulnerable to arcane attacks. A thrall/vector can have up to -80% resistance to arcane, making any thralls/vectors that aren't made from human units, or units with preexisting resistance to arcane a joke.
3. Problems with the economy of thralls. If you enthrall a lvl 3 unit for example, you are paying an expensive price for a greatly weakened unit. There is no option to release a thrall from this control, and you must manually suicide them if that option is available to you. Ideally, it should be possible to release a thrall for xp to the unit that originally enthralled it.
4. It takes a great amount of skill and effort to create favorable conditions for vector. The Khthon unit must be under 12 hp, and the enemy unit must be under 30% hp to even use the vector attack, and even if these conditions are satisfied, the attack can still miss, it's not like it's a magical attack or anything like that.
A miss usually means certain death for the Khthon unit.
5. In the current edition of ageless, Terrapin have essentially been rendered useless without the vector attack, which really only exist as a defensive unit to begin with. These low hp units are best suited for use of the vector attack, and have no zone of control, so they are not suited for most defensive activities. At best, you can put one in a village and set it to hide in its shell for higher resistances and hp.
6. For those still claiming Khthon is OP, I submit to you that they are practically worthless against the undead, or any factions immune to the plague attack. A single ghost can cause so many problems for a group of Khthon units. In fact, the general heuristic for fighting Khthon is as follows:
a. Use ranged attacks, preferably arcane for the initial damage to a Khthon unit.
b. Finish it off with a melee attack so it has absolutely no chance to vector you.
I hope this feedback is helpful and productive.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Yes, agreed. Now that the 30% limit works as I intended, it should be safe to re-add it to horse and terrapin.
And terrapin lines are quite strange, I need to look those over too.
And terrapin lines are quite strange, I need to look those over too.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Actually Kthlons have ranged units: frogs and ducks.
The problem is that those are actually not too viable because of being somehow underpowered and overpriced. Let's talk a bit about each one, but at first about ducks because those are actually more fair than frogs.
Brown duck:
1) it has no 60% anywhere. Max defense terrains are 40-50%, which decreases considerably their durability.
2) Compared to other lv0's, it has around the same stats but costs 10g.
3) only 15 hp, which is lower than commonly seen in lv0.
4) lv0 unit that needs 2 lv1 kills to level up at 70% xp try 1 lv1 + 1 lv0 kill.
Obviusly what this unit needs is a little more of health and costing 1-2g less. This faction can't buy lv1 ranged at all and this faction need stronger ranged atackers.
Great Duck:
1) Got some better resistances than Brown duck, but is still low at health (24 hp) which makes difficult to use properly the self regen +4 of this unit.
2) Same 40-50% def issues.
3) Standard ranged damage of 6-3 coming from a weaker lv0.
4) Again, if bought in era of heroes is a bit overpriced by costing 16g.
Giant Duck
1) Fairly much better than their lv1 and lv0, but in damage terms looks weak 12-1 mele impact and 8-3 ranged.
2) It got some regen and decent health, but still needs revision because no-one tries leveling ducks compared to leveling Yaks or Rams.
Stympheon
1) same as brown ducks it has only 40-50% on the possible terrains.
2) too low base health compared to other units, well it has regen+4 but doesn't has enough health to use the regen properly.
3) Kthlons doesn't need op ranged units, but need fair balanced unit and they will gain it from a lv0 unit.
Stymphallian
1) underpowered in damage. 7-2 mele & 6-4 ranged next to a longbowman which are 8-2 mele & 10-3 and the human can go for lv3. Stymphallian is too weak for no owning lv3.
2) Fairly good health, but still lacks of durability because those 40-50% def terrains.
Sugestion to duck lines:
1) raise health and lower price on brown ducks (maybe add a 60% def oportunity)
2) Try focusing Great duck and Giant Duck making them more durable than most archers (maybe with same or a bit lower damage than most ranged units)
3) Try adding marskman to Stympheon and to Stymphallian. to Stymphallian try increasing damage to something like 8-4 or 6-5.
Let's now talk about toads lines which are a way too weak to be considered as viable.
Toads
1) most grave issue on this unit is the health amount. 12 hp for a 7 cost unit is kinda a grave fact; even more considering the really poor resistances this unit already has (-90% to anything that isn't cold). Their expected durabilty is just of one rouond. A way too expensive for 7g.
2) Those can only have 60% def terrain at swamps, on anything else have only 40-50% def.
Also I've noticed that those frogs at lv1 have a fairly ok health, but the problem is their resistances. Try loweing a bit their physical weaknesses and increasing the base health of the lv0 by a bit. Also idk any sugestion to make toad line viable for Orocia map; their concept of weaknesses and 50% def at castle def is something that makes this line not viable at this map. Maybe add a Tongue mele atack for the lv1 ones.
The problem is that those are actually not too viable because of being somehow underpowered and overpriced. Let's talk a bit about each one, but at first about ducks because those are actually more fair than frogs.
Brown duck:
1) it has no 60% anywhere. Max defense terrains are 40-50%, which decreases considerably their durability.
2) Compared to other lv0's, it has around the same stats but costs 10g.
3) only 15 hp, which is lower than commonly seen in lv0.
4) lv0 unit that needs 2 lv1 kills to level up at 70% xp try 1 lv1 + 1 lv0 kill.
Obviusly what this unit needs is a little more of health and costing 1-2g less. This faction can't buy lv1 ranged at all and this faction need stronger ranged atackers.
Great Duck:
1) Got some better resistances than Brown duck, but is still low at health (24 hp) which makes difficult to use properly the self regen +4 of this unit.
2) Same 40-50% def issues.
3) Standard ranged damage of 6-3 coming from a weaker lv0.
4) Again, if bought in era of heroes is a bit overpriced by costing 16g.
Giant Duck
1) Fairly much better than their lv1 and lv0, but in damage terms looks weak 12-1 mele impact and 8-3 ranged.
2) It got some regen and decent health, but still needs revision because no-one tries leveling ducks compared to leveling Yaks or Rams.
Stympheon
1) same as brown ducks it has only 40-50% on the possible terrains.
2) too low base health compared to other units, well it has regen+4 but doesn't has enough health to use the regen properly.
3) Kthlons doesn't need op ranged units, but need fair balanced unit and they will gain it from a lv0 unit.
Stymphallian
1) underpowered in damage. 7-2 mele & 6-4 ranged next to a longbowman which are 8-2 mele & 10-3 and the human can go for lv3. Stymphallian is too weak for no owning lv3.
2) Fairly good health, but still lacks of durability because those 40-50% def terrains.
Sugestion to duck lines:
1) raise health and lower price on brown ducks (maybe add a 60% def oportunity)
2) Try focusing Great duck and Giant Duck making them more durable than most archers (maybe with same or a bit lower damage than most ranged units)
3) Try adding marskman to Stympheon and to Stymphallian. to Stymphallian try increasing damage to something like 8-4 or 6-5.
Let's now talk about toads lines which are a way too weak to be considered as viable.
Toads
1) most grave issue on this unit is the health amount. 12 hp for a 7 cost unit is kinda a grave fact; even more considering the really poor resistances this unit already has (-90% to anything that isn't cold). Their expected durabilty is just of one rouond. A way too expensive for 7g.
2) Those can only have 60% def terrain at swamps, on anything else have only 40-50% def.
Also I've noticed that those frogs at lv1 have a fairly ok health, but the problem is their resistances. Try loweing a bit their physical weaknesses and increasing the base health of the lv0 by a bit. Also idk any sugestion to make toad line viable for Orocia map; their concept of weaknesses and 50% def at castle def is something that makes this line not viable at this map. Maybe add a Tongue mele atack for the lv1 ones.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Well, if we want to get technical, the Katoblepon and all its advancements have a ranged attack as well, but the focus of Khthon really seems to be on melee, the ranged attacks are vastly dwarfed by the melee attacks for good reason.
I agree for the most part, Toads and Ducks are not worth buying the way they are right now, but I also feel that their ranged attacks shouldn't be made stronger.
Instead, I would suggest giving them a lesser form of vector, where the toad/duck merely switches bodies with the enemy unit, and remains at the same damages instead of fully healing. (Kinda like a nod to DBZ)
This also solves the issue with the khthon lore somewhat.
So "Lesser Vector" is the same like normal vector except:
1. You aren't healed; you have taken the enemy body at it's current damage, and the enemy has taken a fully healed toad/duck.
2. You can only do it once, the new body won't have any form of vector attack.
That's 1 idea I guess.
I agree for the most part, Toads and Ducks are not worth buying the way they are right now, but I also feel that their ranged attacks shouldn't be made stronger.
Instead, I would suggest giving them a lesser form of vector, where the toad/duck merely switches bodies with the enemy unit, and remains at the same damages instead of fully healing. (Kinda like a nod to DBZ)
This also solves the issue with the khthon lore somewhat.
So "Lesser Vector" is the same like normal vector except:
1. You aren't healed; you have taken the enemy body at it's current damage, and the enemy has taken a fully healed toad/duck.
2. You can only do it once, the new body won't have any form of vector attack.
That's 1 idea I guess.
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
if am not mistaken, you should maybe repost these ideas into Archaic Era thread (the eras are being developed seperately)
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Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Ukian Civilians need fixing. They only need (70%) 4 xp, and only cost 6! No sense in buying a lvl 1 ever.
Khthon notes: The toad might deserve a little more health but a possible 16 damage from a lvl 0 seems like enough, especially when considering it is fire.
Also the toad is very cheap when compared to default lvl 0. The avg cost is 10 gold with a high of 13. The avg HP is 17 with a high of 18. The avg XP is 21 with a high of 24.
The Archaic Era (as beautiful, amazing and not intended for use with other eras as it is) is off the spectrum of other eras and should not be used to make comparisons. For example lvl 0 Northern Spotter and Mummy both have 24 HP.
Khthon will crush most undead (bones) with their impact charges. Plus, I'm not sure it's a bad thing that a team has some weaknesses. Seeing that you can't make a ghost a leader, the Khthon should beat default undead team leader easily.
Khthon OP comes form the fact they have multiple units with plague which seems unfair, you need to lvl up to dark sorcerer before he can use plague and the only other way is through easily defeated walking corpses. I usually code it so the Ophis chain is the only Khthon to be able to plague. I do agree that vector should be reactivated if it works properly, it takes pretty narrow conditions for vector to be viable.
Khthon notes: The toad might deserve a little more health but a possible 16 damage from a lvl 0 seems like enough, especially when considering it is fire.
Also the toad is very cheap when compared to default lvl 0. The avg cost is 10 gold with a high of 13. The avg HP is 17 with a high of 18. The avg XP is 21 with a high of 24.
The Archaic Era (as beautiful, amazing and not intended for use with other eras as it is) is off the spectrum of other eras and should not be used to make comparisons. For example lvl 0 Northern Spotter and Mummy both have 24 HP.
Khthon will crush most undead (bones) with their impact charges. Plus, I'm not sure it's a bad thing that a team has some weaknesses. Seeing that you can't make a ghost a leader, the Khthon should beat default undead team leader easily.
Khthon OP comes form the fact they have multiple units with plague which seems unfair, you need to lvl up to dark sorcerer before he can use plague and the only other way is through easily defeated walking corpses. I usually code it so the Ophis chain is the only Khthon to be able to plague. I do agree that vector should be reactivated if it works properly, it takes pretty narrow conditions for vector to be viable.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
Somewhere in Ageless are some turtles which can hide in the shell.
There is an option in the right-click menu to hide and un-hide.
I don't know in which faction, I saw them only in creep war.
If it helps finding them, at least some of them had a ambush/diving ability for any kind of water and swamps.
When they are in the shell, they have higher resistances and no attack anymore.
But it only hides the attack which the unit originally had. Attacks which you get elsewhere, like the shop in creep war, are not disabled. (If you didn't change that in the last release.)
There is an option in the right-click menu to hide and un-hide.
I don't know in which faction, I saw them only in creep war.
If it helps finding them, at least some of them had a ambush/diving ability for any kind of water and swamps.
When they are in the shell, they have higher resistances and no attack anymore.
But it only hides the attack which the unit originally had. Attacks which you get elsewhere, like the shop in creep war, are not disabled. (If you didn't change that in the last release.)
Try out the dark board theme.
Re: Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.15
They are the same Khthon turtles. I guess I could have event-based override there, but it would be awkward.