AI-generated Art
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Re: AI-generated Art
I'm not sure exactly what your point is here, but the fact that Wesnoth is free to play is not really relevant. Games which are available for no cost still need to comply with copyright law.Mabuse wrote: ↑August 24th, 2023, 9:09 pm and thus free-to-play projects like wesnoth with no main commercial intention would benefit greaty from ai, imagine you could feed ai with thousands of 72x72 pixel art sprites (and their names etc) and then let ai generate new units. it would be perfectly possible. maybe it is even possible right now.
so every restriction that wesnoth-staff is putting on themselves, will just be to the disadvanateg of wesnoth, since the world around wesnoth will use ai. that is most sure atm.
Re: AI-generated Art
never said that.Haha, no, this is very, very far from the truth. There exists no AI right now that would be good at any form of creative writing.
but there is so much genric stuff out there anyways, this generic random stuff ai will be able to reproduce in 1 or 2 decades.
high quality stuff may be something different
beside of all that, ai that is fed with the work of all human of all times, may have much more of a pool to generate things from than a single human has.
and creativity is only one thing. the other thing is craftmanship. ai can learn the craft once you formulate it.
the creativity comes from humans, and ai will be able to mix the already existing creativity of humanity, and reproduce new things.
many people use ai already for that, so yesit's more likely it someday reaches a state where it's actually useful as a tool for writers.
you can easily knock together an article and then overwork it by hand, many people do that.
never said anything elseAI may indeed be an exciting new field, but it'll be years, decades, maybe even centuries before it can match a real human.
its the same with random map generators, they cant produce something like a human would create, but they can create a base to work with, or other way around, they can add little differences, e.g. scatter stuff and that. these little things are also ai, and we use it already.
as soon you can formulate what is called creativity into ai. it is able to reproduce that in one form or another.
and even right now a good random map generator can knock something together even a human needs hours to do, and will be better at it as most humans.
he best they can do is output something that vaguely looks like a novel but makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If your goal is to generate false fiction to add flavour to a game setting, then it might work for that, but if your goal is to produce an original work, then it's no use to you.
btw, i 100% agree on that. ai wont even be able to tell wether things make or dont make any sense, since it doesnt know wha t makes snse at all.
this is by far very complicated to do so.
you would have to formulate the WORLD and all the laws and dependencies in it. gravity is one of the things an ai could possibly learn that things dont fly into the sky for no reason for exmaple. in order that things make SENSE as a whole you need a deep understanding of many many things AND be able to define them and then implement them into ai.
as this is more or less impossible .. the best bet for ai, is to copy art/behavior/craftsmanship from humans, copy how they do things. etc
Last edited by Mabuse on August 25th, 2023, 4:08 am, edited 5 times in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: AI-generated Art
sure.
but wesnothians dont need to fear rhe power of ai. thats what i meant.
and since you can use ai to create non copyrighted stuff i dont see a problem.
you dont need to go on the street and protest like writers and actors in hollywood do (for example), since they know sooner or later the majority of them gets replaced by ai, that can create most of the generic stuff
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: AI-generated Art
really? based on what?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 24th, 2023, 10:08 pm Steam has also banned a few games that have used generative AI art as well.
i think its a bit funny
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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Re: AI-generated Art
Because despite the massive amount of hype around it, the legal status of generative AI's output is unclear.Mabuse wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:10 amreally? based on what?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 24th, 2023, 10:08 pm Steam has also banned a few games that have used generative AI art as well.
i think its a bit funny
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: AI-generated Art
whats the worst things that can happen?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:30 am Because despite the massive amount of hype around it, the legal status of generative AI's output is unclear.
for steam e.g.
that the programmer of ai step in and say: all the art form this ai in mine and you pay me me xxx amount of dollar?
because for the dude who pressed a button and created a pic (and put it into a game), i guess there wont be much damage if someone else uses "his" pic too.
i htink the dude know that he didnt "made" the pic.
the truth is: ai can generate art that is truly nice and thus many people fear they cannot monetarize it anymore, thats why the cut off ai art
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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Re: AI-generated Art
Well, in the US, if a court rules it's copyright infringement you can be fined up to $150,000 per instance of infringement.Mabuse wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:38 amwhats the worst things that can happen?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:30 am Because despite the massive amount of hype around it, the legal status of generative AI's output is unclear.
for steam e.g.
the truth is: ai can genrated art that is truly nice and thus many people fear they cannot make money with it, thats why the cut off ai art
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: AI-generated Art
infringement to whom?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:41 am Well, in the US, if a court rules it's copyright infringement you can be fined up to $150,000 per instance of infringement.
i guess we a re talking about some strange cases where people use ai to make a "mickey mouse comic", and then we have a prohlem, since micky mouse itself is protected.
but if i tell ai to whatever paint an "orc" for me. and it comes up with whatever, and i sell the ai paints online then. and find buyers.
who will call copyright-infrigement on me and on what base?
i just want to understand the point?
Last edited by Mabuse on August 25th, 2023, 5:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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Re: AI-generated Art
The people whose work was used to train the AI.Mabuse wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:42 aminfringement to whom?Pentarctagon wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 4:41 am Well, in the US, if a court rules it's copyright infringement you can be fined up to $150,000 per instance of infringement.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: AI-generated Art
ok i see. well. i guess they wont have a point here.
since even a human can "learn" by watching other people art, and there is no legal claim that it is basically the art of the person whose art was used to learn.
but i guess the violations can occur if ai generated art is too similar to already existing art and checking every pic would be a pain in the ass.
on that matter i have read currently that ai can be trained legally with freely available data.
but people have the right to restrict that their (freely available) work is used for that.
if you renounce on the right to restrict that your freely available art is used for ai-learning ... i guess you cannot blame anyone.
although i think there is chance that not everybody knows about this, but i dont know whose problem that is.
but there are questions, i agree.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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Re: AI-generated Art
Fair point. I don't think the current generation of AIs (or any direct evolution of them) could even produce a decent generic novel, but perhaps if combined with some additional narrative / world-building rules, it could reach that point in a few decades.
Might be true in theory, I'm not sure. None of the currently existing AI tools even approach this though. They're heading in pretty much the opposite direction.
Certainly there are people who do that, though I suspect it's actually more work than writing it from scratch in many cases.
This is sorta funny, now you're downplaying the potential for AI. I don't think it's impossible to make AI that does this. I don't think we're anywhere close to doing it though.Mabuse wrote: ↑August 25th, 2023, 3:31 am btw, i 100% agree on that. ai wont even be able to tell wether things make or dont make any sense, since it doesnt know wha t makes snse at all.
this is by far very complicated to do so.
you would have to formulate the WORLD and all the laws and dependencies in it. gravity is one of the things an ai could possibly learn that things dont fly into the sky for no reason for exmaple. in order that things make SENSE as a whole you need a deep understanding of many many things AND be able to define them and then implement them into ai.
as this is more or less impossible .. the best bet for ai, is to copy art/behavior/craftsmanship from humans, copy how they do things. etc
Re: AI-generated Art
The US Copyright Office is opening a public comment period on August 30th for people to submit their feedback on issues relating to copyright and AI:
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/29/23851126/us-copyright-office-ai-public-comments
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/29/23851126/us-copyright-office-ai-public-comments
Wesnoth-related GitHub repos:
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure, FtF
Social media: Mastodon: @egallager@treehouse.systems, Steam: egallager
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure, FtF
Social media: Mastodon: @egallager@treehouse.systems, Steam: egallager
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Re: AI-generated Art
So... There was a long time since I saw any activity on this matter. From what I can see currently, Ai-art is not allowed in the game, but that was several months ago. Much has happened since then and I wonder if its time to reconsider the old decision since ai-art would allow for so much potential in many aspects for this gem of a game.
Steam changed their terms and allowed AI-art a while ago: https://store.steampowered.com/news/gro ... 7997849618
EU recently passed a new act in March allowing for AI generated and maniuplated images to be used as long as its clearly stated that they are ai-generated/manipulated. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/e ... telligence
USA, as also stated in earlier comments are on the way and has currently ruled that ai-art cant be copyrighted.
The reason im bumping this thread is because, as I said, there was a while ago this matter was discussed here now and alot has happened since so I just wonder if this is something that is being considered.
Steam changed their terms and allowed AI-art a while ago: https://store.steampowered.com/news/gro ... 7997849618
EU recently passed a new act in March allowing for AI generated and maniuplated images to be used as long as its clearly stated that they are ai-generated/manipulated. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/e ... telligence
USA, as also stated in earlier comments are on the way and has currently ruled that ai-art cant be copyrighted.
The reason im bumping this thread is because, as I said, there was a while ago this matter was discussed here now and alot has happened since so I just wonder if this is something that is being considered.
Re: AI-generated Art
Several months is "a long time"?DunderHasse wrote: ↑May 28th, 2024, 6:16 pm So... There was a long time since I saw any activity on this matter. From what I can see currently, Ai-art is not allowed in the game, but that was several months ago. Much has happened since then and I wonder if its time to reconsider the old decision since ai-art would allow for so much potential in many aspects for this gem of a game.
(Personally I would guess it will take decades before there is any clarity on this matter.)
What do you mean? Are you talking about Thaler v. Perlmutter?DunderHasse wrote: ↑May 28th, 2024, 6:16 pm USA, as also stated in earlier comments are on the way and has currently ruled that ai-art cant be copyrighted.
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Re: AI-generated Art
Several months is a long while in this context, a lot has happend during that time, for example the EU parlaments new passing. There is no way it will take decades since rules are already being made and clarified. As I said before, for example, steam is now allowing ai-art on their store. In the EU you are allowed to use it, even for commercial purposes as long as its clearly stated that its ai generated.Several months is "a long time"?
(Personally I would guess it will take decades before there is any clarity on this matter.)