The South Guard (Revised)

[nemaara]

I made an update changing Asheviere's dialogue and also giving Deoran some more text. Also addressed some of pent's feedback, still need to work more on the first cutscene and S1.

[holypaladin]

Why Sir Gerrick has no more leadership and silver crown? I seen he even lost most of his dialogues for captain Mari

[ForestDragon]

Why Sir Gerrick has no more leadership and silver crown? I seen he even lost most of his dialogues for captain Mari

Yeah, many of the original characters got sidelined too much, and Minister Hylas is straight up deleted.

To be completely honest, I think Gerrick could easily serve the same soldier mentor role as Mari is now supposed to, and it still fit the old TSG better.

[holypaladin]

When I played revised version I felt bad for deconstruction of another classic Wesnothian story. I noticed that even Garard II has been morally tarnished yet again, in The Deceivers Gambit he became a drunkard and murderer of his brother and here.... he seems to will be having intimate relations with a several-year-old child.

[ForestDragon]

When I played revised version I felt bad for deconstruction of another classic Wesnothian story. I noticed that even Garard II has been morally tarnished yet again, in The Deceivers Gambit he became a drunkard and murderer of his brother and here.... he seems to will be having intimate relations with a several-year-old child.

Fortunately the last part was mostly reverted in 1.0.3, but overall I agree with you on this. Right now the new reworks have many very questionable writing decisions.

[Gweddeoran]

In light of the fact that artwork is difficult to obtain, especially high-quality portraits, we should cherish the characters who have received such art, not delete them or relegate them to even further obscurity. Minister Hylas and Sir Gerrick had the privilege of receiving some of the highest-quality artwork we have seen in Wesnoth to date.

• Sir Gerrick: He not only has a very unique sprite, but also an excellent portrait. As others have mentioned, he could be a good replacement for Mari, instead of sidelining him further.

• Minister Hylas: He could be fleshed out more rather than being pushed to the already character-heavy HttT rework where he would not get to shine. This is based on the comment in a separate thread that Hylas would perhaps appear in HttT.

I understand you may be trying to add more female characters, but one thing I appreciated the most about Wesnoth was that even though we may only have a handful of female characters, each was unique and memorable. Here are some examples:

• Ardonna(Ardryn-na): An obsessive researcher rejected by others due to her appearance and interests, bent on attaining immortality and abandoning her mortal body for lichdom. She knows how to pick her battles and retreats to obscurity when she realized her radical ideas on necromancy would not be accepted in society.

• Li'sar: A resolute but prideful commander who is willing to accept her own mistakes and becomes a likeable character over the course of HttT.

I personally don't think Mari is worth removing Minister Hylas and further sidelining Sir Gerrick.

[ForestDragon]

In light of the fact that artwork is difficult to obtain, especially high-quality portraits, we should cherish the characters who have received such art, not delete them or relegate them to even further obscurity. Minister Hylas and Sir Gerrick had the privilege of receiving some of the highest-quality artwork we have seen in Wesnoth to date.

• Sir Gerrick: He not only has a very unique sprite, but also an excellent portrait. As others have mentioned, he could be a good replacement for Mari, instead of sidelining him further.

I personally don't think Mari is worth removing Minister Hylas and further sidelining Sir Gerrick.

Exactly

• Minister Hylas: He could be fleshed out more rather than being pushed to the already character-heavy HttT rework where he would not get to shine. This is based on the comment in a separate thread that Hylas would perhaps appear in HttT.

As one of the people participating in the HTTT rework I agree that Hylas shouldn't just be shoved aside into HTTT, he deserves to stay in TSG.

I understand you may be trying to add more female characters, but one thing I appreciated the most about Wesnoth was that even though we may only have a handful of female characters, each was unique and memorable. Here are some examples:

• Ardonna(Ardryn-na): An obsessive researcher rejected by others due to her appearance and interests, bent on attaining immortality and abandoning her mortal body for lichdom. She knows how to pick her battles and retreats to obscurity when she realized her radical ideas on necromancy would not be accepted in society.

• Li'sar: A resolute but prideful commander who is willing to accept her own mistakes and becomes a likeable character over the course of HttT.

Speaking of female characters, even TSG itself has Ethiliel as one of the main cast. And her character/writing is quite good too in my opinion.

[holypaladin]

Even Mebrin/Mal M'Brin is not very significant character in new version. His new icon is totally unmatched to his portait and describtion. He not only don't looking like a lich but not even like elf, more like just old human. His fearsome eyestalk was replaced with two weaklings. And we confront much earlier, he literally looks there like just one of many necromancers, that's all

[nemaara]

Okay based on your feedback I'm adding Gerrick back as a loyal hero unit and giving him his dialogue back (had to remove it before because he potentially could have died).

Is M'brin's sprite that bad? I didn't draw it but can get the artist to get feedback. Or I can just revert it to lich if there's no saving it.

[holypaladin]

Is M'brin's sprite that bad? I didn't draw it but can get the artist to get feedback. Or I can just revert it to lich if there's no saving it.

Taking into account he's already dead it's not very wise to leave him looking like alive. The undead are not affected by the biological clock so I would also appreciate the removal of the "aged" trait.

[Pentarctagon]

It's close enough to flesh-colored that it's not immediately obvious that it's a skull - even I had to look closely at it to notice.

[nemaara]

New patch:
- Added Minister Hylas back (non-hero)
- Sir Gerrick has more lines (still non-hero)
- M'brin changed to lich unit

Incomplete:
- Increase lines for Hylas and Gerrick without assuming they may be alive
- Old TSG had code for this that I can use
- Was an issue in old TSG in later scenarios too, not a new problem
- Something I can try to address now
- Work on tutorial elements to more align with in game events, move more complicated explanations to later

What else should I add to this list?

[holypaladin]

What else should I add to this list?

Add back ogre to this version with possibility to take him into our team

[Dalas120]

If it were entirely up to me, in an attempt to appeal to both veterans and newbies, perhaps the tutorial/TSG would look something like this? I've tried to keep core characters and scenarios, while still limiting the complexity the player gets exposed to. This is purely my suggestion; not trying to force my vision on anyone.

(Even though Hylas is included here, I really don't think it would hurt to remove him, and keeping his portrait for inclusion in future new campaigns / campaign reworks)

S01, Born to the Banner: Deoran arrives at Fort Tahn.
- Captain Mari meets him there (as a supervisor from Weldyn), and runs him through the basic tutorial (clicking, moving, attacking, etc.)
- she's brought magic quintains from Alduin (this is an opportunity to tease the wider universe), and we reuse the same dialogue from the current Battle Training
- the player gets access to Spearmen and Bowmen. The bandit leader only recruits Thugs (a basic level 1; let's keep things simple).
- the initial map is a total sandbox, like the current Battle Training part 1. Once the basic tutorial is complete, the map expands to reveal the bandit leader (this section fills the role of Battle Training part 2)
- the player does NOT get control over Captain Mari. These bandits shouldn't pose much of a threat; she wants to watch how Deoran performs, and will give him tips about stuff like ToD or retreating wounded units.

S02, Westin Town: similar to the current revision's implementation, but:
- fewer characters and dialogue. A tease of the wider Wesnoth universe, not too much of a lore dump in-and-of-itself. IMO teases are great - readers fill in the blanks with whatver kind of world they enjoy playing in.
- we learn that bandits have been recruiting undead, which poses a serious problem.
- we're introduced to 2 named characters: Sir Gerrick (the local guard captain), and Minister Hylas (the local priest). Neither of these characters join you, yet.
- we learn that Magistrate Fiore and his daughter Asheviere have fled the region, and have sought audience with the king
--Sir Gerrick seems like a great guy. Gerrick is very hesitant to speak ill of Fiore, but we get hints that he's not the best ruler.

S03, Desperate Errand: The player's first non-sandboxed mission. Similar to the current version's implementation, but:
- the player gets control of Captain Mari (not a leader, no protection/leadership ability, but durable and good damage) in addition to Deoran,
- the player can still only recruit Spearmen/Bowmen (this may be the player's second scenario EVER; let's keep things simple)
- the enemy Outlaw leader still recruits Thugs, but also recruits Footpads and a LOT of Walking Corpses. This is the player's first introduction to elusivefoot, as well as undead/plague.

S04, Vale of Tears: same as the current revision's implementation, except:
- Ethiliel has no bodyguards (reduces complexity; fewer new units the player needs to learn)
- Mari and Ethiliel don't get along well at all.

S05, Blight: similiar to the current revision's implementation, but:
- the player learns to recruit fencers. They're fairly good in forest, so this seems like a good time to introduce them.
- Bandit leader (Urza Afalas) recruits Thugs+Footpads, and offers an alliance as soon as you spot him
-- Ethiliel wants you to kill Urza. On the other side, Mari thinks the elves are too soft/untrustworthy - allying with the bandits is much more pragmatic.
-- if you fight (Elf Path), Mari leaves, furious. She returns to Westin to make an unfavorable report to Gerrick/Hylas
-- if you ally (Bandit Path), Ethiliel leaves, furious. You don't gain control of the bandits or their leader

- the southwest undead only recruit Walking Corpses, while Mebrin recruits both Walking Corpses and Ghouls (this is the player's first introduction to poison. include tutorial elements).
- when you reach Mebrin, he starts to recruit Skeletons and Skeleton Archers (this is the player's first introduction to skeleton resist units; include tutorial elements).
- when Mebrin is defeated, he begins to cast an uber-spell (something with elven magic, perhaps), that would annihilate his soul but raise a large army of undead
-- if you have Ethiliel (Elf Path), she hesitates. There's argument, and Mebrin has time to finish his uber-spell. Mebrin dies, and a bajillion undead appear. The player's forces run away, in a cutscene.
-- if you don't have Ethiliel (Bandit Path), Urza Afalas finishes off Mebrin mid-spell, and he crumbles to dust. Mari comments that Ethiliel and the elves will be furious, and the party returns towards Westin.

----Elf Path:
S06a, Pebbles in the Flood:
- Mari returned to Westin, and told Sir Gerrick what's going on. Feeling the situation is out of control, Sir Gerrick led a few troops south to find Deoran. They encounter him in this scenario, fleeing from the undead.
- Sir Gerrick and Ethiliel (atoning for her misdeeds) hold off the undead, both dying in the process. Deoran returns to Westin and rallies their defenses.

S07a, Tides of War: same as the current mainline version
- The player gains control of Minister Hylas, who summons the city council to help defend (same as the current mainline version).
- the player learns to recruit Heavy Infantrymen.

----Bandit Path:
S06b, Long March: same as the current revision's implementation, but:
- Ethiliel is the one who's gotten the elves all angry, not Eltenmir.
- It's up to Deoran and Mari to get through the forest; they don't have a guide (or maybe we have Urza Afalas like in the mainline campaign).
- this is the player's first time seeing elvish fighers/archers. Possibly only use fighters/archers, not rangers/heroes/captains/etc.

S07b, Vengeance: same as the current revision's implementation
- upon returning to Westin, we reunite with Sir Gerrick and Minister Hylas.
- the town is being overrun by elves. We get a small keep and need to fight our way back into town, at which point the objective changes to survival and the player learns to recruit HI.
- Gerrick/Hylas/Mari are AI-controlled initially, defending Westin. Once the player reaches them perhaps the player gains control, or perhaps they stay as AI allies.
- Ethiliel is the antagonist here, not Eltenmir. When the scenario ends, Ithelden comes and calms Ethiliel down
-- Ethiliel knew in her heart that the humans were telling the truth; she felt a familiar presence in the dark magic that raised the undead. But she wasn't willing to admit it without Ithelden's help.

----Epilogue:
- Fiore returns, and has no appreciation for any of the sacrifices that have happened on his behalf to keep his town safe. Hint at events in motion in the wider world (not too much; keep the player wanting more).
- neither path is explicitly canon. Keep things vague in future scenarios: "oh yeah there was trouble down in Kerlath"

[octalot]

Because the journey map before Raising the Banner only shows the southern part, it misses an opportunity to show the places that Gerard II name-dropped in his intro speech. If the player turns on the tutorial, how about showing the main Wesnoth map with the route from Weldyn to the crossroads where Captain Mari and Deoran turn south, and at that point have a cut scene? The caravan that they've ridden with thanks them because no bandit has dared to attack them, and Captain Mari laments that it means she hasn't seen Deoran in action, and checks his skills there.