An Unnatural Winter (MP Campaign)

[jb]

OK here is the promised replay. This is on Very Hard mode and it was very easy..lol.

The rouge was killed before the deal was even made.

[Rhuvaen]

Thanks a lot for that replay... the difficulty settings hadn't been working properly! I was wondering while I watched that game already.

Fixed a lot of problems that you guys pointed out: Dil Gaddyn's behaviour, some of the events that didn't test whether a leader had died or not, the xp setting, beefing up enemy leaders, changing more terrain based on difficulty...

Most of all, though, I found a way to make the AI send its units in the correct direction. Now, this will change the way you play this scenario the most.

Oh, I also completely removed the shroud and followed NeoPhile's excellent suggestion to force the player to select the difficulty level before recruiting (I believed the multiple leader bug to take care of that, but it must have been fixed already ).

Version 0.3.4 doesn't really do justice to all the rebalancing changes in terms of the number .

[Rhuvaen]

There's a lot of OOS reported for observer apparently. This doesn't affect playability for the players at all, though, so don't be discouraged from trying it by what you see. Sorry observers . Mythological suggested it might have something to do with villagers appearing on the move_to events. I consider this an engine bug.

There is still one thing that needs ironing out, and I will think about something concerning the villagers (to make it possible to save more of them, too).

[jb]

Good to see you reply in this thread again...maybe we can get an update as to when the second scenerio will be ready.

[Samuco]

Ive had an idea.

[Rhuvaen]

Version 0.3.6: fixed all scripting bugs, made instructions/handling of difficulty setting clearer, clearer objectives, villagers now appear in capture or die events (should fix things for observers). Now I can work on scenario two for real, jb!

[Yogibear]

There's a lot of OOS reported for observer apparently. This doesn't affect playability for the players at all, though, so don't be discouraged from trying it by what you see. Sorry observers . Mythological suggested it might have something to do with villagers appearing on the move_to events. I consider this an engine bug.

Not unlikely .

I just did a commit that deals with savegames, in particular fixing some event issues with DotM replays that i stumbled upon. Maybe you should try your scenario with latest svn to see if there are some improvements.

[Rhuvaen]

Alright, I've put up some request for help along with my plans for scenario 2 in the first post of this thread. Please have a look there if your name is Truper or jb, or if you are willing to help regardless .

Thanks for your attention, let's get this ball rolling again...

[jb]

I'd be happy to make a map for you. I'll try to make a first draft version tonight or tomorrow and I'll post it here.

[Rhuvaen]

Woo-hoo! I need a tap-dance emoticon over here.

[jb]

ok, here is my first attempt

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[Rhuvaen]

Thanks very much, jb, so much work for a first draft!

Here's a few things that don't fit with the scenario I had in mind (and which didn't communicate so well through the sketch):

• 1. The northwest player arrive via some kind of road from the N/NW. This road follows south to the fort (and then it should actually continue further south, not like in the sketch). There's too much wilderness and no road in the NW.
  
  2. The main road should by no means lead past the outpost and beacon to the SE goalpost - that would just give a too obvious choice for the NW players. The eastern hills and mountains are mostly wilderness, the outpost and most importantly the beacon are on a high ground that is somewhat inaccessible.
  
  3. The road is too much a corridor of good terrain at the moment. I'd like to see more snow near the starting point of the NW players, and some snow to be crossed near the signpost in the SE. The wilderness near the goblins shouldn't have such a good road traversing it (just a few swathes of 'decent' terrain - hills, forest with a few patches of grass).
  
  4. The distance between the fort and the NW starting point is too little. I want a bit of a running battle between the NW players and the goblins, and the map must allow for that. I suggest moving the NW keeps right up to the map border (or extend the map in that direction). They can also be smaller, maybe 4 shared encampment spaces and three keeps (so 7 altogether - there could be three players up there).
  
  5. Similarly, the fort could be a little further to the south. All the action is supposed to happen immediately around the fort, the northern road, the outpost, beacon and towards the signpost. The orcs are meant to start very close to the fort.
  
  6. The forest between the fort and the NW starting point offers too good terrain too conveniently. I would like the forest to be smaller, further south closer to the fort and mostly west of the road... on the east side of the road it should be liberally interspersed with snow, to make maneuvering harder.
  
  7. The outpost/watchtower thing doesn't have to be that big, although I like the idea of being able to recruit there. A keep and 1-hex ruined castle would be nice (after all, the goblins sacked it).
  
  8. The outpost and the beacon need to be more separated from each other, by distance and terrain. They are meant to be two separate objectives. Maybe the watchtower/outpost is more approachable from the north, and the beacon more from the south?
  
  9. Since the human leader is passive, it would be nice to join all the parts of the fort to allow him (and the players) to recruit in any space. For purposes of the scenario maybe have only three castle spaces per player (although that will need testing, anyway).
  
  10. The southern orcs are meant to be a hungry nomadic tribe. They should only get a camp-style castle - at the moment their place looks just too dramatic.

Heh, I could only make such a long list because your map is already so well-formed!

My problem is I have a pretty good idea how the action and flow of the scenario should be, but wasn't able to translate that into the sketch. In any case it'll be some work of scenario or map adjustment to get the gameplay I envision (or adjust that envisioned gameplay to something equally interesting).

Do you think you could take those points into account (you have of course already made a great contribution towards the scenario )?

[Truper]

How does the neutrality of the Orcs in the 2nd scenario relate to the fact that they were already hostile in the 1st scenario?

Does the Goblin leader being "strangely in league with the weather" mean he is somehow related to whoever is Behind It All, and would we need to know who that is to write good dialog for the Goblin?

Rather than try to write the dialog right away, I think it makes sense to figure out what kind of dialog we need first.

1. Something that explains where the players are, and why. Probably an intoduction.

2. Something to explain why the party is split up, and why some players do not have all their gold at the start.

3. Dialog from the human leader explaining the local situation, and probably a request for help to the players.

4. Some boasting/raving from the Goblins, with possibly a hint from the Goblin leader about the winter.

5. A goblin defeat message.

6. A death message from the Orc leader, and the human leader.

7. Something that tells the players what the bonus actions are.

8. Something that completes each of the bonus actions.

9. A victory message, and lead-in to the next scenario.

Additions to the list, anyone?

[jb]

I will be away for the next 2 days or so. I'll try to make revisions based on your notes on sunday, but it may be later than that even.

[Rhuvaen]

Wow, the map code really messes up my browser performance in responding...

How does the neutrality of the Orcs in the 2nd scenario relate to the fact that they were already hostile in the 1st scenario?

They're different orcs entirely. The ones in the first scenario were wild tribes driven from their mountain homes by the winter. They knew about Whoever is Behind it All.

These orcs are nomadic tribes from the borders of Wesnoth. They've signed a peace after the fall of Asheviere, and then their leadership crumbled. They were known to co-exist with the northern outposts of Wesnoth, but the winter and hunger could change everything...

Does the Goblin leader being "strangely in league with the weather" mean he is somehow related to whoever is Behind It All, and would we need to know who that is to write good dialog for the Goblin?

Well my ideas here are a bit sketchy (thus the vague description). I was thinking that yes, he got specific help from the sorcerers who changed the weather (whether that is Thlarun Houl from the first scenario or whether he's just a puppet I don't know). Some magical device making him more charismatic and weather-resistant. The goblins follow his example and wear snow-shoes, for instance.

1. Something that explains where the players are, and why. Probably an intoduction.

I was thinking - the dialogue could start between the human leader and the Drake leader (he'll always start in the fort). Explaining why the Wardens left the Pass, and that they will meet their comrades in the fort. Then about the marauding goblins and that the watchtower was captured by them.

2. Something to explain why the party is split up, and why some players do not have all their gold at the start.

I plan to do that in the first scenario. The Wardens abandon their post to lead the way, while the other leaders get a choice of either accompanying him (1 leader max) or helping the people of Helmsfar to rebuild / recoup from the attack (yes, the Wardens are least interested in the human affairs and more concerned about the Sages). They did not expect trouble so early on the road.
EDIT: the players on the road are caught unawares and need to reach the fort to "rally their troops". The players in the fort have marched ahead of their troops or tired them, and can only recruit them slowly. Maybe it's too cumbersome to explain all that in the dialogue?

3. Dialog from the human leader explaining the local situation, and probably a request for help to the players.

Yes. He'll be surprised to find the Wardens on the road. And he'll be worried about the orcs, too. If they could light the beacon and so warn the Wesnothians further south, he'd be prepared to hold out until help arrives.

We'd also need some dialogue for the arriving players in the north. (ADDITION)

4. Some boasting/raving from the Goblins, with possibly a hint from the Goblin leader about the winter.

Yes, and something that indicates how proud they are of their banner hanging from the watchtower...
I was thinking that the fort might also send a cavalryman to meet the northern players and warn them of the situation. (ADDITION)
Not sure which.

There would also be some dialogue for the orc, who moves his forces near to the fort but doesn't attack - maybe have the orcs imagine what the fort's larder holds, and then let the orc leader say that they may not attack. Yet he is worried about the larder falling into the goblins' hands and would rather have it himself. This dialogue would have to give the impression that he's not abandoning the treaty lightly, but isn't all too scrupulous about it either.(ADDITION)

Then some dialogue when he calls the attack - either because the goblins are attacking or the fort is undermanned.

There might be some intermediate dialogue to give a warning that he's reconsidering his stance...

5. A goblin defeat message.

6. A death message from the Orc leader, and the human leader.

7. Something that tells the players what the bonus actions are.

I think the human leader would indicate the need to light the beacon, and maybe let them know about the banner. The rest could be mentioned in the objectives.

8. Something that completes each of the bonus actions.

9. A victory message, and lead-in to the next scenario.

There would also have to be some dialogue when the reinforcements arrive.

It's a pretty complicated scenario I guess, but I want there to be many things that need to be done. I think MP campaigns are about cooperation and coordination of the players, and the scenarios should challenge them in those respects (we can have the obligatory troll-filled tunnel choke-points later on in the campaign )