Victory and Defeat requests.

[TimothyP]

As you know, I am currently working on Gameplay 04. When this is done, I would like to create good Victory and Defeat music.

To ensure that the majority of you are satisfied with the Victory and Defeat music, please post here some adjectives or descriptive terms to explain how you think each should sound.

Also, please indicate how long you think these segments of music should be.

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, Victory is the music that will play when you win a level. Defeat is the music that will play when you lose a level. I don't know if the game currently includes my old versions of these or not. But I am redoing them nevertheless.

Once I get around to working on these, I'll check back here for preferences regarding how these pieces should sound.

--Timothy

[zookeeper]

Well, the obvious requirement for the victory theme is that it should suit all settings/factions: it shouldn't sound out of place when you're playing an evil undead campaign any more than when you're playing your typical human/elf one. I'm not competent enough to say how exactly that could be accomplished, but I suppose it should at least avoid the usual epic/heroic style of trumpets blazing and so on. Sure, in the future we could have multiple victory themes for different factions/whatever, but I'd rather have one that suits all reasonably well and thus IMO we should focus on getting that first.

For the defeat theme...I'd prefer something a bit different than the current/old one. The current/old one is a bit too slow, lingering and sad to IMO fit many other situations than the "the hero fell, and the lands fell into darkness blabla" -style "sad ending" (slight exaggeration to convey the point). The new one could use some percussion, and have a slightly more neutral mood to it.

I think the length of the current/old victory theme is perfect, but the new defeat theme could be a second or a few shorter than now (especially if it'd be faster in style).

[Viliam]

Also, please indicate how long you think these segments of music should be.

IMHO the Defeat should be very short. I do not think anyone will listen to it for a long time... more probably they will immediately load the saved game, restart scenario, or quit the game.

OTOH, the Victory could be longer and pleasant, so that people can enjoy it after their hard deserved victory, and relax for a while.

[vonHalenbach]

Also, please indicate how long you think these segments of music should be.

IMHO the Defeat should be very short. I do not think anyone will listen to it for a long time... more probably they will immediately load the saved game, restart scenario, or quit the game.

OTOH, the Victory could be longer and pleasant, so that people can enjoy it after their hard deserved victory, and relax for a while.

I totally agree! The new victory can be a minute of some happy marching music and the defeat music can be as short as you need to realise the game is over and to give you enough time to move your mouse cursor to the point where the reload or exit button is located (about 5 to 10 seconds). Nobody likes to hear defeat for very long.

[Viliam]

Hm, this is another idea: Both musics could have a loud and energic starting part, and then a more silent and tranquil part which is repeated. Like this:

Victory: victory_start.ogg, victory_loop.ogg, victory_loop.ogg, victory_loop.ogg,...
Defeat: defeat_start.ogg, defeat_loop.ogg, defeat_loop.ogg, defeat_loop.ogg,...

The point is that at the moment of victory/defeat, player's emotions are strong, so they could be reflected properly... but such music would get very boring if repeated. This way it would be like:

"WE WIN!!! Hurrray! La la la la la la la la..." (estasy to calm happiness)
"OH, $#!%!!! This sucks! So bad, so bad, so bad..." (anger to mourning)

[Temuchin Khan]

please indicate how long you think these segments of music should be.

The defeat music should definitely be brief.

As for the victory music, perhaps it should have an basic theme which is brief and can be cut short, followed by multiple variations in case someone wishes to celebrate his victory.

[Chris NS]

I quite liked Age of Empries having a short victory/defeat theme, followed by a longer one whilst you look at the post-battle stats. (Yes, even Microsoft can get things right occasionally.) Of course, until and if someone writes an interface for looking at post-battle stats (and something more than just the early finish bonus screen), that won't be much use.

I've got some other short themes on a wish-list, but since you've already got a list of things to do this can wait.

[Jetrel]

I echo Villiam's statement - one burst of "something" to announce the victory, and then quiet murmurs of something else to follow it.

Really, what we should probably have, is a general sound effect to signify the immediate moment of victory/defeat - a sound effect followed by a song; a sound effect which would jive well with any number of different songs to follow it (perhaps for different races).

Said sound effect shouldn't be too terribly different from our current tympani thump signifying the change of turn; it should just be an order more complex, because what it describes is an order more complex (the end of a game, rather than the end of a turn).

[zookeeper]

Really, what we should probably have, is a general sound effect to signify the immediate moment of victory/defeat - a sound effect followed by a song; a sound effect which would jive well with any number of different songs to follow it (perhaps for different races).

Said sound effect shouldn't be too terribly different from our current tympani thump signifying the change of turn; it should just be an order more complex, because what it describes is an order more complex (the end of a game, rather than the end of a turn).

I'll see if I can do something about that...

On a completely unrelated note, having a sound for completing an objective (any single step you're required to take in a scenario in order to advance) would be good too. I'll see if I can come up with one.

[Chris NS]

A similar theme for when an ace baddie dies would be nice too.

[TimothyP]

These are all great comments. Here is what I'm thinking right now. I'll probably end up creating individual Victory themes for each faction. I'll create a single Defeat theme since no one really cares to listen to Defeat for long. Each Victory piece will be long enough that you can listen for a short while if you want to, but it will eventually end.

Please let me know how you would like each Victory theme to sound. I'm talking descriptive words here.

--Timothy

[Airk]

These are all great comments. Here is what I'm thinking right now. I'll probably end up creating individual Victory themes for each faction. I'll create a single Defeat theme since no one really cares to listen to Defeat for long. Each Victory piece will be long enough that you can listen for a short while if you want to, but it will eventually end.

Please let me know how you would like each Victory theme to sound. I'm talking descriptive words here.

--Timothy

This is in fact exactly what I was going to suggest - taking a page from the likes of Star Control 2 with per faction victory music is a good plan.

My thoughts on individual pieces are as follows (I don't, sadly, have good examples of any of this stuff, so you'll have to make do with my very non-musically-educated descriptions):

Loyalists: Something nice and martial - a march, probably, with the usual trumpets and drums. Fanfare-esque.

Rebels: Less 'loud' than the Loyalists - flutes and harps and woodwinds, maybe to create a sort of tranquil "we've won and we're going back to our quiet woods now" sort of feel.

Knalgans: Bombastic, deep, heavy on the percussion Good beat to it. Proud and far less mellow than the rebel theme.

Northerners: Brassy, loud, perhaps a little cacophonic, as if the people playing weren't all -quite- working together.

Undead: This one is hard. Cold and sinister. Soft and sibiliant, perhaps. "Gold chains in the wind"

Drakes: Honestly, I have no idea what to do for drakes. =/

[Temuchin Khan]

Drakes: Honestly, I have no idea what to do for drakes.

How about deep, booming male voices chanting a capella?

[Airk]

Drakes: Honestly, I have no idea what to do for drakes.

How about deep, booming male voices chanting a capella?

It might work. Or it might give me flashbacks to the Mines of Moria in Fellowship of the Ring with the chanting there. (Which was nice and dwarven, incidentally, but I imagine it'd be best to stay away from that here.)