Change/fix Giant Scorpion Resistances

[Neoskel]

I don't know what happened with the Giant Scorpion exactly, but it has the exact same resistances as the Mudcrawlers. I think someone based the wml for the scorpion off the mudcrawler and forgot to change the resistances. -100% against fire and +70% against impact makes sense for a mud/clay creature, but not at all for a giant arachnid. In fact the other giant arachnid, the Giant Spider has no weaknesses or resistances of the same type.

Giant Scorpion and Mudcrawlers have:
-50% to arcane
10% to blade
-20% to cold
-100% to fire
70% to impact
10% to pierce

Giant Spider has:
20% to arcane
0% to blade
0% to cold
0% to fire
0% to impact
0% to pierce

I propose that Scorpion get the same resistances as Spiders since they are very similar creatures. I suppose this would make scorpions tougher to mages, but weaker than they are now to regular weapons, especially impact.

Thoughts?

[Noyga]

That's is simply because they have the same movement type.
I agree it doesn't make much sense here...

[Mist]

Will get fixed, but not anytime soon, unit tweaks are at the bottom of my ToDo I'm afraid

[Velensk]

I'd reckomend that both of them have a weakness to fire, though not as sever as -100%.

[AI]

Cave Spiders use mountainfoot, which looks like dwarvishfoot with neutral resistances.
Mudcrawlers use scuttlefoot, which looks specifically crafted for them.
Giant Scorpions also use scuttlefoot, which makes little sense in several parts.

So:
-mudcrawlers should keep using scuttlefoot
-cave spiders should have their resistances modified (or you could leave them as they are, as they're supposed to be big annoying guards that don't go down easily)
-giant scorpions should have the same/similar resistances as the cave spider, though a different actual movetype is might be better, don't think they walk the same (scorpions don't walk on walls I believe; of course, WINR)

Fire should be pretty effective, cold a lot less so (coldblooded, right?), arcane standard, not sure about pierce, blade and impact (but as they have a carapace, it should probably be similar to armoredfoot, so impact decent, pierce/blade less so).
Anyone have a good idea for actual numbers?

[Neoskel]

The thing is, i think scorpions are supposed to like swamps and sand a lot. So they may need a new movetype of their own.

I think maybe -20% to both cold and fire, 20% to arcane and 10% to blade, pierce and impact would work.

[AI]

Scorpions in swamps? That doesn't make much sense to me, scorpions have pointed 'feet', making not sinking through wet stuff a challenge. Most of them also dislike water.

It seems mostly used in deserts, though tRoW uses it in several other occasions:
grep -R Scorpion /usr/local/share/wesnoth/data/campaigns

Anyway, being coldblooded, they're quite resistant to both cold and hot (though cooking will kill them and so will deep freezing, though they'll probably survive your refrigerator). Having an exoskeleton, they should be also resistant to pierce and blade.

I'd say something like this would be good:
http://pastebin.com/d547102ee

Also, scorpions are nocturnal, meaning they should probably be chaotic, rather than neutral.

[zaksam]

AI is imho correct. they should be resistant to pierce, blade, cold and fire. and maybe weak to impact and arcane.

problem with huge scorpions (and, in fact, any huge animal which was in original small) is that they are nearly invicible. imagine 1,5 long scorpion, with, say, 15 cm of chitin armor.. really scary..

[AI]

they should have the standard 20% resistance to arcane, that is, unless magic was involved in making them that big...


As for being so indestructible, that's just more reason to like them, no? (you try killing an elephant, their thick skin makes them quite similar to drakes: if you want to kill them with something other than piercing damage, you're going to need to put a LOT of effort into it)

[Neoskel]

Scorpions in swamps? That doesn't make much sense to me, scorpions have pointed 'feet', making not sinking through wet stuff a challenge. Most of them also dislike water.

It seems mostly used in deserts, though tRoW uses it in several other occasions:
grep -R Scorpion /usr/local/share/wesnoth/data/campaigns

Anyway, being coldblooded, they're quite resistant to both cold and hot (though cooking will kill them and so will deep freezing, though they'll probably survive your refrigerator). Having an exoskeleton, they should be also resistant to pierce and blade.

I'd say something like this would be good:
http://pastebin.com/d547102ee

Also, scorpions are nocturnal, meaning they should probably be chaotic, rather than neutral.

A scorpion doesn't need to worry about sinking, it would travel through the muck, not over it. Also, the same problem occurs with sand.
I said i think they are supposed to like swamps because of their placement in campaigns and their current (wrongish) movetype. Cave walking is good too.

Remember, this is not a scorpion that was enlarged through magic, it is a separate species of scorpion that happens to be the same size as a man. Which means that it is different in build than a regular scorpion, i.e. thicker legs, etc and has different characteristics.

Also, bugs don't walk on points they all have 'feet' where the end of the leg bends out. Except for perhaps web-living spiders cuz they need points to walk on the web.

About resistances, i think that it shouldn't have an actual weakness to impact. If impact is supposed to work well on them, then it should just have 0% resistance IMO. I also think that it wouldn't have a particular resistance to cold, in fact i think it should be mildly weak (-20% or -10%) to both cold and fire since any of those types of attacks would be the extremes you mentioned anyways. I'm pretty sure drakes would survive your refrigerator too . Arcane resistance is good because they're completely non-magical.

[AI]

They may not walk on points, but they definitely have very small feet.

Scorpions prefer to live in areas where the temperatures range from 20°C to 37°C (68°F to 99°F), but may survive from freezing temperatures to the desert heat.

Scorpions of genus Scorpiops living in high Asian mountains, Bothriuridae scorpions from Patagonia and small Euscorpius scorpions from middle Europe can all survive winter temperatures of about -25°C.

Scorpions can take a quite wide range of temperatures, though they tend to spasm if you directly apply fire.

[Gauteamus]

I'd say something like this would be good:
http://pastebin.com/d547102ee

Pickin one tiny nit here: why would creatures like the giant spider or scorpion get a (significantly) higher defense value in castles and villages than on plain grassland? Yes, they would find more strategic shelters here, but would not be able to fully utilize arrowslits, corners and doorways like an archer or spearman. For varieties sake (would not make a balance-breaking difference anyway), I would make it something like this:

Code: Select all

[defence]
    deep_water=80
    shallow_water=80
    swamp_water=80
    grassland=60
    sand=60
    forest=50
    hills=50
    mountains=40
    [b]village=60 [/b]
    [b]castle=60 [/b]
    cave=60
    tundra=60
    canyon=80
    cavewall=60
    fungus=50
[/defence]

[AI]

I wasn't sure about what to do with mountains/hills/villages/castles anyway, so that sounds fine with me.

[F8 Binds...]

Scorpions prefer to live in areas where the temperatures range from 20°C to 37°C (68°F to 99°F), but may survive from freezing temperatures to the desert heat.

They are nocturnal and fossorial, finding shelter during the day in the relative cool of underground holes or undersides of rocks and coming out at night to hunt and feed.

Here are some simple quotes I got off of Wikipedia. As may have been previously suggested, these suggest the scorpion should get bonuses in sand / desert terrain, and that it should be chaotic.

I'm thinking...

-50% Fire
-10% Impact
10% cold
20% Pierce
20% Blade
20% Arcane

As well as...

Code: Select all

[defence]
    deep_water=80
    shallow_water=80
    swamp_water=80
    grassland=60
    sand=40
    forest=50
    hills=50
    mountains=40
    [b]village=60 [/b]
    [b]castle=60 [/b]
    cave=50
    tundra=60
    canyon=80
    cavewall=60
    fungus=40
[/defence]

I'd like to see them do average on most terrains other than in caves, sand... and fungus.
Just my 2c's.

[zaksam]

-50% Fire
-10% Impact
10% cold
20% Pierce
20% Blade
20% Arcane

I disagree. I think they should have much higher cold resistance. in fact they can be nearly freezed (that much that they can be break) but they survive. human could never survive this (well, except these ilussionists ). and, imo, they should have lesser fire weakness. if any.