Ageless Era - Current Version: 4.33

[IPS]

Hello again, I'm posting a group of Yokai balance, let's explain a pair of replays of mine, one in Pick Your Recruits Ageless game and other playing as Yokai faction.

In this game, I desided to go for Springan and could notice they're actually a way stronger than inteded. Looks like the lv2 are overperforming at cleaning speed and offensively, on the spoiler we'll explain it better as well as all other units in which I've found some irregularities of balance.

Spoiler:

In the replay of the game, we can notice that cleaning speed of Greater Springan is a way too extreme. Looks like that unit is dealing a way too much damage (much more than expected from a tank). Sugestion for this unit is decreasing both mele & ranged damage by -2 (5-4 mele + slows & 7-4 ranged). This unit can't use offensively mele, but it's a bother to anyone that is fighting it, also the counter atack againist mages is really extreme (can kill 20g cost mage in 3 sucessful strikes). Also it proved to be an exelent tank after all, even by having only 40% castle defense and 30% flat defense.

Other thing that could notice about Greater Springgan is that they need a way too low xp for huge upgarades like the gained at lv2. Would sugest to raise xp to something like 39 (10% more xp)to lv2 due it's not that hard to level a unit that is going to participate in many counteratacks. Lv0 and Lv1 look balanced in stats, those doesn't need change except lv1 for some higher xp to lv2 because when leveling it you have a good ranged atack (even if it would been 7-4).

Now, comparing Mandragora vs Springan, it's obvius that Mandragora is no longer an atractive option to have, lower mele damage, less health, no lv2 ... doesn't even regenrate and also is even more expensive. Something that could make that no lv2 unit is giving it (counter) on its mele to give it at least a 60% hit chance in retaliation and maybe, some few better resistances than Spriggan have and/or better terrain defenses than spriggan) and also more health. Personally I would like to diferenciate more Springgan to Mandagora, making both units considerably distinguishable; in the term that would sugest giving Mandagora regen+4 only but somehow flexible terrain defenses like 40% at flat, 60% at forest, 50% def at castle/mushrooms/hills/castle/swamp. Mandragora looks fair in damage but needs sustantial upgarades in other ways (apart of counter in mele)

Sluger Swarm observation (Yokai Ageless replay): Noticed that slurger swarms have terrible resistances to fire/cold/arcane for being just a 27 hp with no traits. This unit doesn't have as much health as Wose (52 hp) to consider a massive weakness to fire, cold and arcane. Would sugest to make its fire weakness to -40% -> -30% and also cold/arcane weakness -30% -> -20%. In the other side, not any faction does have arcane, fire or arcane (look at Knalgan) so we can decrease pierce resistance from 70% to 60% in order to be less abusive againist certain units.
^ Out of this, I'm not sure if Rebel Swarm had to have the same modifications at resistances, also the 70% -> 60% would hurt more to Rebel Swarm because of the Drain/Charge fact. Well, that's something debatible at here

Faerie/Nixies: Both no lv2 units that doesn't have anything special consdering the no lv2 fact.
a) Faeries are extremely fragible at being only 50% flat defense and so. Something that could help her to be a bit better is being 60% at most terrains (but 50% at water kind tiles) and 70% at forest/mushrooms. Would sugest to try to lower fire/arcane, it doesn't have that much health (same explained in Slurger swarm/Rebel Swarm). We can try -20% -> -10% to fire and -20% -> -10% to arcane instead of the actual ones. Maybe a little more damage (7-2 ranged) could help to make it more balanced and 24 -> 26 hp.
b) Nixies are curious units that have 60% at water tiles and also have 40% def at plains and also 1 MP cost over flat. Stats are too poor considering it has no lv2. Same as Faeries would sugest to decrease arcane weakness to just -10% and maybe giving her 0% -> 20% cold resistance. Maybe increasing both damages to 5-3 mele & 5-4 ranged considering it has no level ups and raising their health a little 28 -> 30 hp.
Aditional note: Leveling a Pixie actually is not that much viable at all, needs 2 lv1 kills and doesn't look a problem to me to make stronger both options. Can't lv2 and on survival maps that has a lot of weight.

As tester of Yokai, I'm glad with the results I've gained with Feyborns, they're performing as good as a mage of any other faction and in certain aspects those can be considered factional Strength. As well that I have no kind of objections to Leshi lines, they look to work fine as well. About the spider, I can't coment right now, I got extremely unlucky in the upgarades she got, but looks fair in stats terms. Lamias mmm... not a good unit for Orocia, low health as well really bad resistances, but in pvp they're much more stronger than in Orocia map, can't give a proper feedback about those yet.

[IPS]

Well, since the thread has like a month without replies and I got more fresh ideas for balance and finally ended classes. I will post some feedback about some few factions which are more remarkable issues of Balance.

Yokai
Last update on ageless popularisated them a bit (yey), and corrected most issues of balance in Yokai faction, still, Spriggan/Mandagora needs revision because Spriggan line is actually overpowered an Mandagora underperforms a lot next to its expectations and next to Spriggans; apart of minor changes. Would sugest those changes:

Sproutling
a) Ranged damage to 4-2; they have already a 4-2 mele slowing. They are in the faction to give health; doesn't need to be cost efficent at dealing damage too.
b) Considering their resistances got improved, try increasing their price to 8g because regen is more relevant the more units with regen you have.
Spriggan Ranged damage to 6-2 & Mele 4-3
Greater Spriggan Mele damage 5-4 and ranged 7-4
Mandragora and 'friends' Read sugestion given in the last post about yokai.


Emperors Guard
Actually this faction is a mine of some overpowered units; cases like insanely strong Lv2 samurais with powerful bows for being more than just an exelent performing mele unit; apart of some other cases to consider, let's mention those:

Mounted Samurai: Exelent mele and ranged damage for a scout; Try spear 7-2 and bow 5-3 (-1 damage to each); maybe raise costs to 20g.
Samurai Captain: Those damages for a scout with leadership... try 10-2 mele and 7-3 ranged (-3 damage to mele and -2 damage to ranged)
Shogun: Same than their lower levels, have too good hybrid damage apart of having 8 MP and leadership; try 15-2 mele and 7-4 on ranged (-3 damage at mele and -2 at ranged). Come on, he still has 70 HP, he is still a strong unit.
Daimyo: It's actually the leadership unit with best hybrid damage; let's nerf this fact considering he has 8 MP; 15-3 at mele and 10-4 at ranged (-3 damage at both mele & ranged)
Monofu: Top tier mele fighter with 10-2 bow and higher physical resistance than usual; let's nerf his bow massively into 6-2 (-4 damage per strike)
Tsuwamono: Same than monofu, we can try making his ranged into 8-2 pierce (-6 damage per strike)
Bushi: Solid resistances consdering he has steadfast during defense (similar than dwarvish guardsman).
a) Can be tried to make his blade resistance to 30% so he might take more blade damage when atacking.
b) -10% fire/cold resistance that can be removed when he advances to lv3.
But I would leave intact his mele, so he can shine next to Monofu at having at least more mele damage.
Imperial Guard: Would sugest to use at him the actual resistances of Bushi.
Kyushyryu: Well, he's a Dragonguard with extra fire atack; consdering that this faction has Ryu line with efficent fire atacks we can consider nerfing this unit's bonus fire atack. Would sugest to try 4-9 or 5-8; he has still a thunderstick like weapon that can take away 50 of damage in one strike during day time.

Apart a bonus feedback at here

Mechanical/Machine/Steelhive observations
Did various tests to see which units can be repaired from Technician, Blue Machinist and Steelhive Repairer/Welders and noticed units that should be mechanical but are considered as Dwarves in race. Let's coment this overall feedback
1.- Steelhive Repairer and Steelhive Welders can repair Machines/Mechanical and Steelhive units alike. This means those 2 units can repair mechs, and all meganaire machines as well and any mechanical unit from any other faction.
2.- Technicians and Blue Machinists can repair all Meganaire machines and any mechanical unit. Both doesn't work over steelhive units; which means steelhive can only be repaired from Steelhive Welders and Steelhive Repairers.
From this, before going to 3rd point we can say that steelhive are the only group of mechanical units that can't be repaired from EoMa technician and Archaics blue machinists.
3.- List of mechanical units that are listed in dwarves race (so, they can be poisoned as well):
- EE Gyrocopters and Steamcoters
- EE Steamwheel and Thunderwheels.
- Feudal's Wanderers, Ramblers and Itinerant
- Feudal's Wooden Birds and Steel Eagles.
4.- Some races appears twice or in multiple diferent lists... Like it's seen in Falcons and humans or in Monsters; this obviously means there is a cleaning process needed at documentation of races.

[Angelonius]

Please fix the Paladin's sprite. I can see that the lance is still sticking out.

[Ravana]

I finally observed the two orocia replays.

This summer I have been extremely addicted to mmorpg, which is also why I have not got much done. To get 4p orocia, it would take constant prodding. More likely though is 3p swamp variant, which wouldnt require that much work from me.

I was not aware of vapor having upkeep. Should something change?

Also, when switch leader is on, leaders are no longer immune to vector. I see that as leader is no longer anything special, so doesnt deserve special treatment.

All balancing I will look once I start implementing it (though it shouldnt require any special skills, so anyone could submit changed files either with pull request or by sending to me).



I have basically no art skills. Most I have done is recolor core unit for my forum avatar. Therefore I can not do anything about paladin image.



Next release will be before september.

[IPS]

Ravana can you describe the changes that are wanted for version 4.16?

Afortunaly today I got at time a victory as devling in hardcore diff which can help considerably at devling feedback. But between actual devling lines I feel most discomforts is at their 50% castle defense, it makes things much harder for certain survival maps. Would sugest to give to all lv2 devlings 60% castle defense (70% for sneaks) in order to help them in survival maps. Another thing I noticed is that overgrown needs a way too much XP for AMLA, could you lower their xp to 100 (to 70 when 70% modifier?) same to Devling abusers because full rehealing them is difficult and was an adversity I had to experimentante in late game.

Apart of those discomforts, I found not too many difficulties at playing as devlings. But tested and demostrated devlings are stilll a viable choice for hardcore diff; but requiring much more skills than usual. Nailers and Abusers resistances improvements from 4.15 helped a lot at giving me enough oportunities to manage fine the side.

Apart of that, I will test soon Yokai at hardcore difficulty to see adequately if there is any irregularity in yokai faction (but actually I asume that Spriggans are overperfoming considerably) and I will look if anywhere in the era there is a balance irregularity (apart of GENERAL look of backstab units before the update).

[Angelonius]

I have basically no art skills. Most I have done is recolor core unit for my forum avatar. Therefore I can not do anything about paladin image.

Can you ask someone to fix the paladin sprite?

[IPS]

Yesterday before going to bed I played as Al-Kamija, and well, almost done Flawless game; lost a unit mostly because I had to cover more than 50% of the castle tiles at skirmisher wave and lost one air avatar because being a bit unlucky with it ... but I found some discomforts while playing as Al-Kamija:

1.- Fire Avatars are -20% impact resistant; they're made of fire, they're not birds! how a flame can be -20% impact resistant? apart that in damage or in anything else they're lowest tier elementals in the era (era of magic) and they're impact weak too? would fix their impact resistance from -20% to +10% to help this line not being too mediocre.
2.- Lv2 summoners xp is a way too high compared to other more rewarding lv2->lv3 advancements. I know some of those have really OP potential at RPG styled games, but think that in PvP they're somehow weak offensively for lv3 standards. Is rasonable to decrease their xp from 100 to 85 (59.5 xp at 70% modifier). But by the hand you can make Lv3 summoners need +15 xp to lv4; meaning they need still the same xp to lv2 -> lv4 in 2 advancements.

Other observations:
- water avatars with their new xp value looks factible and apropiate.
- Air elementals are very sastifactory, but that only death proves spamming them is not a good idea.
- Summoners performs somehow badly early game, but in mid/late game they become a useful strike force (apart of very valuable human's arcane resistance)
- Ifreet are very underrated by people (most are dazzled by Wonderful Jinn), but ifreet is more than viable.
- Al-Kamija is one of those few factions in which you can try using all recruit list with a sastifactory result in orocia gameplay.

[IPS]

This post will be edited for more aditions, but actually will contain this:

Same as posted for the golden age, I can sugest this for Cold Turkey considering that lv3 bagpipe player has already leadership.
Inspire: Nearby units of superior level +5% damage; same level +10% damage, units of inferior level (10 + (10X))% bonus damage in which X is the diference of the unit with inspire and the unit being inspired (for example, lv2 unit with inspire would make a lv1 unit fight 20% more eficent and lv0 30% more eficent).

Edit #1: Tentative nerf to floating swords and warrior spirit lines

Realized that Excalibur has crazy 55 hp, considering the lot of resistances it has, it's pretty much, also considered to do a small nerf to swords considering they're a way too abused in RPG maps. Not that heavy the nerf also.

Floating swords: All physical resistances to 65% (taking away a total of 15% resistance points, doesn't make that much diference in non orocia maps; also this raise the damage that swords take from physical weapons by like 16.667% more (1/6 extra more because total damage taken from 30% to 35%). They have 23 health points, which for those resistances is very durable.
Magic Sword: Apart of resistances, would decrease their health from 32 to 27; to make their health more similar to Lv2 ghost lines.
Possesded sword: Consdering their higher weakness to arcane could say that this sword can have 70% to physical resists; but having the same health nerf than Magic swords at health, hp from 30 to 26.
Shifing sword: Apart of the physical resistance nerf, would decrease its health from 33 to 28; considering it has regen.
Enchanted Sword: Enchanted sword has a way too much health for ghost like resistances, would sugest to nerf its health from 40 to 34.
Shadow Blade: Those resistances and drains, very durable. Like possesed sword would leave it with its original resistances just to only diferenciate more to ghosts from Shadow Blade. But decreasing their health to 30.
Excalibur: Well, this one is a way too tought. Apart it has very good 11-5 magical mele blade, would nerf it's health from 55 to 42 hp.

Warrior Spirit: Ghost like unit with 60% physical resistance and 6-3 mele drain, mmmm.... disbalanced. Would nerf their resistance to 55% at all phyiscal and decreasing their mele to 5-3; they're still a very good choice for survival maps because of being more resistant than ghost are and with better draining power (2 hp drain againist humans regardless of the time of the day, ghost has only 1 hp drain except at night!)
Vallhallan: Mele damage to 9-3 and health to 27 to standarize better with other ghosts; still that 55% physical resistance is still powerful.ç



Edit #2: Revision to units with Backstab.
I remember that I comented that I was going to revise all units with backstab because I saw some obviously overpowered ones like 4-4 backstab cultist for only 14g. Let's do an overall revision to backstab units.

Desert Ranger: mele from 7-3 to 6-3 considering he has an useful 6-4 bow (I don't want to imagine that 18-3 backstab at day time even without strong trait!)
Desert Avenger: mele from 10-3 to 8-3, if backstab and strong in daytime can deal 22-3 (compared to the frantic 26-3 without changes).
Temptress: mele from 7-3 backstab to 6-3 considering she has 2-4 poison ranged.
Siren: Mele from 10-3 backstab to 8-3 consdering she has 6-5 poison ranged.
Quenoth Assasin: Same reassons than Siren (poison in ranged). Mele from 10-3 to 9-3.
Striker: Previously mentionated in a post of mine at being notably overpowered. 9-2 mele backstab & 6-3 ranged backstab; considering it can deal the same damage at mele/ranged backstab with 2 diferent amount of strikes/damage.
Nightwing: would decrease its mele from 11-3 to 10-3 backstab.
Cultist: mele damage from 4-4 to 3-4 backstab.
Overt: mele damage from 7-4 to 5-4 backstab; with strong trait and night time it can actually deal actually 20-4 at night!; lower damage than the other option considering he has more health.
Cleaner: Mele damage from 8-5 backstab to 7-5.
Executioner: Mele damage from 16-2 backstab to 14-2 (isn't 40-2 backstab scary at night? it's actually working as this! even without strong trait)
Sniper: it's already oversight, will leave him at his fate.

[Ravana]

Are you aware that Coldturkey has level 4 leadership. Implemented what you have posted. https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... 6b567a365b

[IPS]

mmm... I meant to remove leaership and remplace it by that version of inspires I sugested. Bagpipe player has already leadership at lv2 and lv3, also I forgot that Cold Turkey has heal+8 if I'm right, so leadership + Heals is already fine in him.

edit: no, he has another level up option with heals+8 instead of leadership, my bad. Also he's 10-5 mele impact which is amazing for a unit with leadership, would nerf him to 9-5 and 63 hp then (he has already good resistances/damage and stats even with the nerfs)

Edit 2:
The weird case of the Contestant line, which I think that needs a revision but not for 4.16 considering some issues at terrain defenses but that lv3 damage.

Spoiler:

Also, could Contestant Lines have normal highlander defenses? also I would take away most of his bonus health (maybe to something like 42 -> 33 but with better terrain defenses? same for all his level ups

Stonethrower hp 58 -> 44
Rocklauncher hp 72 -> 56
But giving them both normal highlander defenses alike.

Also I will have a look to all MERCS units for a massive balance chance to all MERCS units for 4.17, because some of those overperforms default/EE/EoM/BEEM units which are considered as fairly balanced.

edit 3: wait what ... 32-2? really impresive lv3 damage but at the cost of potentially useful terrain defenses, idk which would be the best on this line honestly :/

[Shiki]

IPS, could you have a look at the devlings in EoM?
They are going to go in 1.16, but they have only partly the changes which you made to them recently.

Would sugest to give to all lv2 devlings 60% castle defense...

To add 60% just from lvl2 is an interesting idea. I had some problems with overgrowns running in my castle in the 4th Scenario in War of the Dragon. But I had lots of other problems there too (like no carrover gold), so that's probably not the point.

... considered to do a small nerf to swords considering they're a way too abused in RPG maps.

Yes, definitely.

Inspire: ...

I don't know when the rounding starts, but 5% sounds like it may have no effect on many units.

[Ravana]

edit: no, he has another level up option with heals+8 instead of leadership, my bad. Also he's 10-5 mele impact which is amazing for a unit with leadership, would nerf him to 9-5 and 63 hp then (he has already good resistances/damage and stats even with the nerfs)

I will not nerf unit I have never seen used.

Also, inspire is fundamentally leadership, so it wouldnt really help there.

3.- List of mechanical units that are listed in dwarves race (so, they can be poisoned as well):
- EE Gyrocopters and Steamcoters
- EE Steamwheel and Thunderwheels.
- Feudal's Wanderers, Ramblers and Itinerant
- Feudal's Wooden Birds and Steel Eagles.

So, should they all be moved? This might affect traits.
Other repair groups are compatible with each other now.



At this point I have done all changes I realistically expected to be done. From now I need to put together short changelog.

[IPS]

3.- List of mechanical units that are listed in dwarves race (so, they can be poisoned as well):
- EE Gyrocopters and Steamcoters
- EE Steamwheel and Thunderwheels.
- Feudal's Wanderers, Ramblers and Itinerant
- Feudal's Wooden Birds and Steel Eagles.

So, should they all be moved? This might affect traits.
Other repair groups are compatible with each other now.

Mmm... it's harder than I've tought. I absolutely forgot that if they're dwarven race they gain traits as well. The problem is that you can't really poison for example a Steamwheel, but yes the one who drives it. Also authors have 'probably' considered the traits/poison issues in the faction balance.

Also This would mean that the machine takes damage from while the driver does as well? it's somehow polemic.

IPS, could you have a look at the devlings in EoM?
They are going to go in 1.16, but they have only partly the changes which you made to them recently.

Sure thing, devlings are my favorite faction in EoM.

... considered to do a small nerf to swords considering they're a way too abused in RPG maps.

Yes, definitely.

I don't know when the rounding starts, but 5% sounds like it may have no effect on many units.

Well on this case, 5% makes a notisable diference. Considering floating swords are 70% blade/pierce/impact resistance. You're forgeting that the higher the percent are, the more significative are! (for example 80% resistance is double of 60% is, because of the absolute damage taken). Try to give it a look in the side of the damage taken. By this we are making swords take 1/6 more damage from physical atacks and to make them harder to stack a 90-100% resistance which means immortality to those atack types.

It's like to nerf a unit with all 0% resistance and make it like -15% blade/pierce/resistance, you make it to take aproximately 1/6 more damage than it used to do.

Also, comenting about this, I meant all the -5% pierce/blade/impact resistance to all swords line except the Possesed and the Shadow ones just because those 2 exceptions are notably more weak againsit arcane than the others.

[Shiki]

Thank you.

With the 5% I meant the leadership bonus, not resistances. 5%, that means you get +1 for 20 damage.

[IPS]

Thank you.

With the 5% I meant the leadership bonus, not resistances. 5%, that means you get +1 for 20 damage.

Rounding starts at 10 with 10.5 exact value xD, as well as other impair decens (30, 50, 70, 90) also for dragonguards it's 42-1, but consider giving +5% damage to all units of same level (on this case lv3 ones). Isn't that much, but helps.