The Modern Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

[Doc Paterson]

Alright - Here are some updated config and map files. For anyone not familiar, unzip these and put the 2 map files (updates of Basilisk and HGB) into Wesnoth/data/multiplayer/maps, and let them overwrite the old ones. The other files, which give player 2 a starting village on all non-Silverhead maps, go into Wesnoth/data/multiplayer/scenarios, and should also replace the old ones.

These will probably end up being committed sooner or later, so try them out and give me as much feedback as possible.

NOTE: THESE ARE FOR THE DEV VERSION (1.7.4). I think grr is making a stable version....

[grrr]

The map updates are available as add-on for 1.6
Edit: With version 0.1.1, Sulla's yetis *do not* attack you any longer =p

For HGB, I still think you can put too much pressure on 12,15. Once you are forced to give up the southern keep (as p2), losing 2 villages is OK. Losing 3 is a T-KO.

OK, now I tried to make that area easier to defend (with rebbies in mind, and perhaps loys, too). Also, some cosmetical changes with regard to composed terrain (mostly jungle on hills etc).

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2p_HGB_slowed.map

(18.17 KiB) Downloaded 360 times

A match between Q and ps7 trying to demonstrate the problem with 12,15

[Killer595]

tried doc's changes. i am liking the feel of p2, for the most part. they definitely have a chance now. but a few things concern me.

the afternoon start will definitely not allow for the deathblade rush. orc rush should still be more or less ok. but what about a drake/loyalist rush? the *only* thing that prevented my drakes 1 from overtaking orcs 2 in the first 5~ rounds of the previous map was night. if turn five is morning... ouch. i would not want to be undead in either side.

the back village is nice, but again, if side 2 is lawful...huge advantage. what would you send back to take it as loy/drake? most likely spearman or skirmisher (potentially cav if you want to rush ahead quicker). that's 14-15 gold out of commission for the first big confrontation. now if it's turn 5 morning *and* loy/drake have an extra 14-15 gold worth of units on the front line, it's just going to be overwhelming.

personally i would prefer having the back village over having afternoon start - if you take away the back vill and start at afternoon, undead will just fail against drakes. have the back vill and start at morning, and drakes can probably handle undead, especially with the new front-castle formation. it is *much* harder to stage the turn 5 rush now. with the front-castle change though, even the back vill might not be needed. have only tested it in an rng-slanted game vs grrr so far, but i'd be interested to hear any other results.

[Doc Paterson]

Killer - It may very well be that things are a little rougher for Undead now - I'll focus on that/keep it in my mind as testing continues. There's a very good chance that of the three changes (terrain formations, TOD, and free P2 village) employed here, one will be ousted before the changes are committed.

Grr, as for those changes of yours: I do agree that it looks nicer when just about every forest is replaced with the hill/forest dual-terrain (I hate the fact that I can no longer have the option of the bright green grass under the tropical forest), but I just don't think it flies balance-wise. Things change massively when Elves can no longer zip through certain areas unimpeded, and dwarves are at 60 defense on almost every hex where there was once a forest.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I believe that starting time on updated Howling Ghosts Badlands give huge advantage to lawful factions.

With terrain changes that made rushing harder orcs and ud don't have enough time for attacking (advance enough) and if p2 will go for 16 14 he can break defence on this flank easily if he has lawful faction (this is the case for p1 chaotic and p2 lawful). I think this is problematic because overall lawful factions have better mobility than chaotic and that leads to big difference in amount of controlled villages (in favour for p2). To be short: to fast keep rotation gives big advantage to lawful factions because of movement advantage.

When p2 is chaotic and p1 lawful rushing is even harder because of no first move advantage and p1 strike even more deadly while chaotic cant really handle lawful first attack.

[Doc Paterson]

I believe that starting time on updated Howling Ghosts Badlands give huge advantage to lawful factions.

I should have posted this already, but the modded TOD will likely be reverted to standard.

As for the other stuff -

1. Replays with the update (free P2-village and terrain changes) are useful. Post them up.

2. Specific suggestions are welcome.

[Doc Paterson]

I'm also strongly considering stretching (very slightly, so don't get alarmed ) Freelands, Weldyn, and possibly Caves of the Basilisk.

If anyone wants to argue against this, let's hear it.

[Yogibear]

I'm also strongly considering stretching (very slightly, so don't get alarmed ) Freelands, Weldyn, and possibly Caves of the Basilisk.

If anyone wants to argue against this, let's hear it.

I'd much more like to hear the reasoning behind it .

[nani]

* * * * * * * * * *
Here's what I need from anyone who thinks I should make a change to an MP map:

1. REPLAYS (preferably more than one) demonstrating what you're talking about. (...)
2. A detailed description of your case. (...)
(...)
* * * * * * * * * *

Thus me agrees with Yogi. We need 1&2 if your changes aren't exclusively aesthetical.
More precisely: The mob demands access to your personal archive demonstrating & describing the issue.

[Velensk]

I don't know where else to post this question and you hadn't responded to pms so I decided to post it here.

A while back you told me that you'd commit one of my maps to the trunk when I was ready. I sent it in a couple times (including a few revisions) however as far as I know it was not added.
Is it still your intention to look over/add it. Or should I back off.

[grrr]

Grr, as for those changes of yours: I do agree that it looks nicer when just about every forest is replaced with the hill/forest dual-terrain (I hate the fact that I can no longer have the option of the bright green grass under the tropical forest), but I just don't think it flies balance-wise.

Oh, as I said: it's purely cosmetical - it still counts as forest, and *not* forested hill. The beauty of shift-composed terrain (for a lack of a better term), that is, you can shift-clicka terrain tile over another so that it becomes the new background, without changing the previous terrain though.

The only *real* change was the relocated river + 3 terrain hexes next to it (near that exposed village).

[Sorrow]

I don't know, I think freelands already has a pretty big push/pull effect. Making it longer would probably increase that.

[mabeenot]

I'm also strongly considering stretching (very slightly, so don't get alarmed ) Freelands, Weldyn, and possibly Caves of the Basilisk.

If anyone wants to argue against this, let's hear it.

Why make them bigger? Weldyn and Basilisk are a good size for games of short to medium duration. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a longer brawl and I choose a different map, but those two are nice for when I just want a couple quick games to blow off some steam after a tough day.

I don't play Freelands very often, so I don't have much to say on that one.

[Doc Paterson]

I don't know where else to post this question and you hadn't responded to pms so I decided to post it here.

A while back you told me that you'd commit one of my maps to the trunk when I was ready. I sent it in a couple times (including a few revisions) however as far as I know it was not added.
Is it still your intention to look over/add it. Or should I back off.

I thought I did respond, but I guess I must have remembered wrong. That map can absolutely go into trunk. When I said "you can get it committed whenever you feel it's ready," that was because I'd already looked it over, liked it and liked the direction it was going in.

[Doc Paterson]

I'm short on time now, and will be away for about 4 days (1 year wedding anniversary ), but -

Arguments in favor of altering these three maps, to cut down on grunt rush power, are scattered throughout a few threads. I've not yet decided if anything besides the P2-free-village mod needs to occur.

While I'm away, I hope people will test the new map pack that grr prepared, and have many nice replay gifts for me when I return.

Cheers and farewell, for a little while.