My vision of undead

[bill_murray]

My vision is a base army formed of cheaper walking corpses, skeletons, skeleton archers and a few dark adepts. Ghouls by being abominations are more rather to found. The undead leader take villages with ghost terror!

This is the list of changes for my base army:
walking corpse, remain as is.
skeleton, 20HP, 25xp, 5-3 blade, 11 gold
skeleton archer, 20HP, 20xp, 3-2/4-3, 11 gold
dark adept, 25HP, 35xp, 8-2 cold, 13 gold

Rather units (one more would be great):
ghoul remain as is

Scouts:
ghost, 17HP (spirit), 30xp, 4-3/3-3 cold, 18 gold
no bats!!


My new vision fits the idea that with the same amount of gold, undead will have more units.

This is just my vision, i hope many of you like it, i think it's more reasonable than current vision.

[bill_murray]

More ideas on it:

Rather unit:
a undead rider captain (mmm this remember me to nazguls) with leadership at a cost of 20-22 with no great mobility.

[AT]

Undead already can swarm quite effectivly with ghosts and bats. Walking Corpses are already scary to see coming.

It might be very cool to have the undead swarm weak units. However I am not ready to make such a huge, sweeping change at this time.

[bill_murray]

Undead already can swarm quite effectivly with ghosts and bats. Walking Corpses are already scary to see coming.

It might be very cool to have the undead swarm weak units. However I am not ready to make such a huge, sweeping change at this time.

Yep, but the problem remains, brutal scout superiority with bats. You don't let your enemy to take gold. Only undead have this "unbalanced IMO" ability.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Only undead have this "unbalanced IMO" ability.

Northerners have Saurians, which cost 2 more, move 1 slower, but beat the **** out of bats and have Skirmisher.

[bill_murray]

Only undead have this "unbalanced IMO" ability.

Northerners have Saurians, which cost 2 more, move 1 slower, but beat the **** out of bats and have Skirmisher.

But a simple skeleton can kill 2-3 saurians. I've heard that saurians will change of faction (to drakes).

[bill_murray]

Rather units:

Blood bat (level 1), with 6 movement points, at 16 gold.

[Elvish_Pillager]

I don't think we should be doing major redo's of factions at this point. Dave has spoken against moving sideways.... and this type of movement would require excessive rebalancing.

[bill_murray]

I don't think we should be doing major redo's of factions at this point. Dave has spoken against moving sideways.... and this type of movement would require excessive rebalancing.

I'm doing a parallel work, I think in releasing my undead army as a patch
Also I'll do some test and post results.

[turin]

Northerners have Saurians, which cost 2 more, move 1 slower, but beat the **** out of bats and have Skirmisher.

But a simple skeleton can kill 2-3 saurians. I've heard that saurians will change of faction (to drakes).

and a simple troll can kill 2-3 skeletons... whats your point?

[bill_murray]

But a simple skeleton can kill 2-3 saurians. I've heard that saurians will change of faction (to drakes).

and a simple troll can kill 2-3 skeletons... whats your point?

Trolls are unbalanced too, with a cost of 12, regeneration, 42HP and 7-2 damage.
Trolls might cost 16+ gold. This is my point.

[MadMax]

In my view, Undead are too much like the Borg from Star Trek. Undead shouldn't be connected with legions. They also shouldn't raise the people they kill on-the-spot, like the Walking Corpse does. Undead should not be a swarming faction as a whole. I think it would be okay if certain units were swarm units like the Vampire Bat, but the whole faction shouldn't. My ideas:

Make the Skeleton and the Skeleton Archer stronger and more expensive.
Jack the Walking Corpse to 8 gold, and give them some more HP and a decent attack.
Leave the ghost as it is.

[bill_murray]

In my view, Undead are too much like the Borg from Star Trek. Undead shouldn't be connected with legions. They also shouldn't raise the people they kill on-the-spot, like the Walking Corpse does. Undead should not be a swarming faction as a whole. I think it would be okay if certain units were swarm units like the Vampire Bat, but the whole faction shouldn't. My ideas:

Make the Skeleton and the Skeleton Archer stronger and more expensive.
Jack the Walking Corpse to 8 gold, and give them some more HP and a decent attack.
Leave the ghost as it is.

I agree with you too much. I would like a undead faction strong as others are. But seems people and devs prefer a undead faction weaker, needing to swarm to win. All them say, "hey you want all factions to be the same", but they are already, only undead have a different concept.

[autolycus]

I think that the existing undead faction is almost as good as it should be, bar minor changes and some slot-filling. One problem I see with all this balance-rebalance business is that too often the faction becomes all-rounded instead of skewed (which is what all factions should be, if possible). IMO, all factions should be skewed around a single balance point - this is the ideal situation. In most games, this isn't exactly possible because of difficulty in calculating trade-offs and strategic implications.

Solution: don't make major changes until it becomes obvious that everybody wants to play a specific faction over and above all the rest, or that nobody at all wants to play a specific faction.

[Viliam]

All them say, "hey you want all factions to be the same", but they are already, only undead have a different concept.

If all factions are the same, only undead are different... how about redesigning the other factions to make them differ each other too?