Legend of the Invincibles

[Delicius169]

The tome of LIches didnt give me AMLA for becoming lich? Am I mistaken, or it has recently changed? Or I need a book Hearth of Darkness?

[Dugi]

That's a newly introduced bug. It will be fixed from the following version. Thanks for reporting. After the fix, the AMLA will become available.

[Whiskeyjack]

The spectral blade idea is not that bad. It might be usable also by liches. In that case, I think that blade is not very descriptive to be in its name. Maybe spectral essence or something would be better.

You´re right, spectral essence is better in that case, but I´m not quite sure about the spectral, as it does not really resonate with the Seer and to some degree the Lich and the Shade. I´m still looking for something that feels right, but I think spellbound essence, essence of enchantment, sorcerous essence or magical essence all fit better to some degree (the last one fitting best, but also being by far the dullest). Perhaps unworldly essence.

Giving some abilities that work only if the user is undead seem quite awkward to me. I think that it would be better to simply give it all bonuses along with a cancer ability that makes the unit get poisoned every turn (so that only undead are not penalised for wearing it by preventing all healing and taking damage if not being healed).

Then somethink like this?

New craftable armor item "Call of the grave":
- 20 physical resistance
- Damage increased by 15%
- 20 Arcane resistance
- New ability: leeches
- New ability: despair(15)
- New ability: Infected (at the start of each turn this unit becomes poisoned).

Would getting poisoned stop the unit from ever healing (except levelups)? Because then this would be perfect in my opinion and it would still be possible to use the item on living units in combination with Irongut Helmet.
I raised the stats somewhat, because with leeches, despair and the effect reduce on offparts it´s not overly effective to stack this. Because of the drawback and because it is aimed at buffing undead I still think this item should be fairly cheap for the effects it has. I do not think this item should cost black pearls and if at all one per emeralds, amethysts and sapphires, because otherwise it would only be available very late in the game. If that makes it too cheap, I would prefer to tone down the stats. Or do two different items, one cheap that can already be build in part I and one expensive that can make the undead competeable even in later stages of the game.

[Dugi]

Sorry for my scarce replies.

but I´m not quite sure about the spectral, as it does not really resonate with the Seer and to some degree the Lich and the Shade.

I think that otherwordly essence would be better.

New craftable armor item "Call of the grave":

Yeah, something like that.

Irongut Helmet only prevents attack from poisoning its wielder, so it will not bypass it. I'll have to change its description to fix this inconsistency.

Or do two different items, one cheap that can already be build in part I and one expensive that can make the undead competeable even in later stages of the game.

Yeah, that's also an option.

[woseshaman]

Hello there,
since i've played so much of the campaign and really enjoy doing so i would like to give some Feedback on a few minor things i've noticed on the way:
1. "antisocial" counts as a leadership-like ability and is not taken into the calculation if a unit is affected by leadership and antisocial, because the "best" leadership always takes priority
2. Abbadon, unlike Lilith and the Seal Guardians, gets regular demon traits, which can at times make him insanely strong as the dangerous demon skills all scale with unit Level
3. The attacks granted by the demon traits "cold" and "chilling" amplify each others damage because they have the same Name (this also counts for abbadons base ranged attack and the draining traits)
4. The walkthrough for the last Scenario of the first chapter says "recruit lancers", even though that is not possible anymore
5. Efraim and Lethalia as demigods are still immune to poison and drain even though they are no longer considered undead and also don't have an ability which would make them immune
6. It seems that usually physical attacks (lets say Efraims sword) which were turned to an elemental damage type (lets say dark sword of destruction) no longer apply "sucks x health per hit"- effects. This really hurts the Dark set of destruction, since once you equip the sword you no longer gain health from the gloves
7. The Trader in Chapter 2 Scenario 6 Can be attacked by the enemies but can't be hit (either that or god bless RNG)
8. I'm not sure whether some of the above Points were already mentioned since i have to admit that i didn't read most of the other Posts
9. I really like how it is possible to grind chapter 5 and 9 as long as you want and have some sort of sandbox at the end of the campaign parts
10. Since you already created the Transfer units "between" campaigns mod I'd like to see an in-campaign option which ask the player whether he wants to keep his units from chapter 3->4 and 5->6
11. In Chapter 9 I Keep getting Lua Errors whenever lilith appears "<Lua error> ...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'number' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215:
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215:
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215:

[woseshaman]

Hello there,
since i've played so much of the campaign and really enjoy doing so i would like to give some Feedback on a few minor things i've noticed on the way:
1. "antisocial" counts as a leadership-like ability and is not taken into the calculation if a unit is affected by leadership and antisocial, because the "best" leadership always takes priority
2. Abbadon, unlike Lilith and the Seal Guardians, gets regular demon traits, which can at times make him insanely strong as the dangerous demon skills all scale with unit Level
3. The attacks granted by the demon traits "cold" and "chilling" amplify each others damage because they have the same Name (this also counts for abbadons base ranged attack and the draining traits)
4. The walkthrough for the last Scenario of the first chapter says "recruit lancers", even though that is not possible anymore
5. Efraim and Lethalia as demigods are still immune to poison and drain even though they are no longer considered undead and also don't have an ability which would make them immune
6. It seems that usually physical attacks (lets say Efraims sword) which were turned to an elemental damage type (lets say dark sword of destruction) no longer apply "sucks x health per hit"- effects. This really hurts the Dark set of destruction, since once you equip the sword you no longer gain health from the gloves
7. The Trader in Chapter 2 Scenario 6 Can be attacked by the enemies but can't be hit (either that or god bless RNG)
8. I'm not sure whether some of the above Points were already mentioned since i have to admit that i didn't read most of the other Posts
9. I really like how it is possible to grind chapter 5 and 9 as long as you want and have some sort of sandbox at the end of the campaign parts
10. Since you already created the Transfer units "between" campaigns mod I'd like to see an in-campaign option which ask the player whether he wants to keep his units from chapter 3->4 and 5->6
11. In Chapter 9 I Keep getting Lua Errors whenever lilith appears "<Lua error> ...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'number' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:215: in function 'best_weapons'
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:649: in function 'battle_outcome'
...d-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/battle_calcs_fast.lua:786: in function 'attack_rating'
...\add-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/ca_fast_combat.lua:40: in function <...\add-ons/Legend_of_the_Invincibles/ai/ca_fast_combat.lua:7>
(...tail calls...)" (this might just be my savefile; I have noone else to confirm it right now)

[Raijer]

You made a mistake while posting, and posted it twice. Anyway:


1. Probably not on purpose, though, I don't know if Dugi can do anything about it, as there was the opposite problem, where some leaderships where adding (charge leadership + greater backstabb leadership + normal leadership), leading to insane damage.

2. Indeed, probably on purpose. As I think most of us agree to say that chap 9 is too easy, not really a problem in my opinion. Also, he's supposed to get different powers from Uria each times, so it's logical that his traits would change.

3. We complained about it a little (77-2 dmg hurts... a lot), but if you're careful about it, not a problem. I'm quite sure they're supposed to stack.

4. Error, the walkthrough isn't up to date anymore, unfortunately.

5. Reported that 3 or 4 times, dunno if Dugi decided to make up a story to justify it, or simply forgot to remove it.

6. On purpose. We had a discussion about it 2-3 pages ago, and we agreed that it was too powerful without it. There's a ring that should allow you to get back to physical damage.

7. Bug, most likely.

10. 3->4 isn't supposed to happen, because you will get some back in chap 5, and it's kind of unlogical (something like 100 years between chap 3 and 4). Even the recuperation of older units in chap 5 is justified by a new power, "Devour", that allows you to get them back.
5->6 can be done using the normal "transfer units". But I can guarantee you're gonna get bored. Also you can't transfer Lethalia and Efraim. I personnally tested taking my chap 9 army and transfer it to the start of chap 7 (after demi-gods), and got bored way too fast. I just need one unit to go through half the scenarios. Though Jungle hell might be fun actually.

11. About Lilith's bug: Dugi will probably ask you to give a save file right before it, as I don't think it has been reported before.

[Dugi]

Hello. Thanks for numbering the issues so that they can be systematically replied.

1) That's the intended behaviour in this game, I suppose.
2) The problem with Abaddon is rather that he is often too easy.
3) You need something to be afraid of.
4) Fixed.
5) I was trying to fix it in the past, now it seems that I have failed, can you give me please a save file originally named LotI2-Apologies.gz so that I could play around it a bit?
6) Intended, you can take the Unprecious ring to get that suck value. I am adding two additional items that can do that too.
7) Fixed.
8) Of course they were.
9) Some people complained about it. Glad to see that it also has some supporters.
10) No. Personally I don't like that tool. I created it only because some people were asking to create it and I seem to be the only one who knows to create such things.
11) It has already been reported and it's being worked on. Unfortunately, I can't deal with that myself.

[woseshaman]

Thanks for your quick reply,
For most of the things i mentioned i just wasn't sure whether they are intended or not; they just seemed strange to me
My opinion about demon traits: They put too much RNG into the game; half of the demon traits (and therefore like 70% of the demons) are straighup useless (Charge, lesser berserk, fiery, regrowing), while others are extremely strong, especially cold and chilling. Besides that 77-2 is nothing i would be too afraid of; the reason im talking about this is because i've found an Abbadon with 150-7 magical slows recently and those weren't even the 3 most dangerous traits he could've had
Also i hope i did the attachment thing right

[Whiskeyjack]

5. Strange, I always thought this intentional. Seemed logical to me, that Ephraim and Leth are above little things like poison, being demigods and all that

half of the demon traits (and therefore like 70% of the demons) are straighup useless (Charge, lesser berserk, fiery, regrowing)

Buff the weaker demon traits some more?

[Dugi]

@woseshaman
Thanks for the save file, I'll see what I can do. You've sent me the correct one.

Generally regarding demon traits:
Can you guys please list which ones you find too weak?

[nuorc]

I just encountered Abbadon who had charge and lesser berserk, and as he nearly killed Leth I wouldn't call him weak.

I wondered if we could wrap up our discussion about the undead. Why has nobody mentioned any bones? Do you find them completely useless? In part I I had two Grim Knights which were ok, even if they lost two MP advancing from Chocobones. I also had some archers, which were also ok I guess even if nothing much to remember. When I tried 'funny' stuff with skelly melee units it usually didn't work out, for example because Efraim again got separated from his troops...

I believe I was able to make one unit in part I into a Lich, which was pretty good IIRC. I always hoped Efraim would be able to recruit DAs at some point...

[woseshaman]

Demon traits:
Resistance traits (e.g. slimy): rather weak on their own; can still be annoying if combined with stronger traits

Putrid: weak; poison becomes really weak that late into the game and the damage increase is very low

Regrowing: weak; enemies won't even get to Regenerate unless they have resistance traits, however then their damage is ignorable

Perverted: rather weak on it's own; BUT can become useful if combined with brutal/cruel

Brutal/Cruel: scale purely off base damage; having charge/berserk on a weak base attack hurts more than it helps; do well with perverted and/or scary

Wicked: useless most of the time (because the ai doesnt know how to use it)

Scary: only useful when combined with Brutal/Cruel; more dangerous version of resistance traits

Spectral: useless most of the time because either its base damage is too low or its effective damage is too low (blade type) or the demon just gets oneshot because his resistances are too low

Fiery: useless

Cold/Chilling: strong on their own; very strong if both; can be amplified by powerful

Craving/Bewitched: weaker than Cold/Chilling because of the lack of magical (drain doesn't do anything if you miss) but still strong; can be amplified by powerful; arcane damage!

Powerful: just like Perverted: weak on its own but strong if combined with ranged attack traits

Fiery+Powerful: still useless

Example of a useless composition: Fiery, Powerful, Regrowing
Example of a dangerous composition: Cold, Chilling, Persistent

I think thats all of them (and my experience with them)
Besides that i never considered Abbadon weak, to me it's Lilith who seems useless (she has worse traits, lower base damage, only deals blade (blade is bad) damage while Abbadon can have nearly all damage types due to his possible traits)
My Suggestion: Massively increase the base damage of demons (a lvl5 unit with 10-5 base attack Looks like a pretty sad lvl5 unit to me), while decreasing the impact of traits. Increase fireball damage while decreasing infernal chill damage (a demons cold attack really shouldnt be 3 times as strong as his fire attack)
The average power of demons is fine in my opinion but the possible difference between two demons of the same level is way too big (more like: there are lvl5 demons who can kill a lvl9 demon in 1 turn without losing more than 20hp)

[Dugi]

@nuorc
We were discussing some special items that would be greatly helpful to undead to help them deal with their typical weaknesses a few posts above. All undead seem to be somewhat inferior.

Your version of Abaddon apparently had suitable traits and wasn't as weak as the usual one.

@woseshaman
The damage and effect of demon attacks and traits strongly depends on difficulty. What difficulty were you playing?

Lilith should have traits in Foul Pits, if she doesn't get them elsewhere, it could be a bug...

I'd wait for input from other people before buffing the traits you found weak. I might also remove either Cold or Chilling (or alter the effects of one) to prevent that supermassive damage.

[dffou]

About lilith's lua error: I think it was caused by its fireball attack, in the code, you have put a "attacks=3" instead of "number=3", so that its fireball attack has 0 attacks, which resultats to a calculation error.