orcs vs kalgna

[Elvish_Pillager]

P.S.

Orcish Assassins have no property that makes them orcish except their name

race=orc

All that does it affect their names...

[Invisible Philosopher]

All that does it affect their names...

Code: Select all

{MESSAGE narrator ("Genocide!")}
[kill]
  race=orc
[/kill]

As you can see, it can be in unit filters.

[Dacyn]

That's the main flaw with the idea: it hides information that shouldn't be hidden, in a strange way.

What information does it hide? The unit's XP is displayed, so you know it will level... you might as well say that since someone who plans to kill a unit with 1 XP away from leveling with 2 units will be disappointed, that is hiding information.

Code: Select all

{MESSAGE narrator ("Genocide!")}
[kill]
  race=orc
[/kill]

hmm.. where is that code used?

[Invisible Philosopher]

What information does it hide?

If the unit can level up to two different kinds of things, you won't know which before attacking it. Same for traits. Both can make a difference of what you want to attack it with.

Code: Select all

{MESSAGE narrator ("Genocide!")}
[kill]
  race=orc
[/kill]

hmm.. where is that code used?

Nowhere yet, but I could use it if I wanted!

What's so dragonlike about a Fire Dragon? Its name...
What's so goblinoid about... all the goblins? Some of them aren't even called goblins! (Wolf Rider)
What's so human about a Mage (or Assassin)? Nothing at all, except its "race"!

I think the Orcish Assassin is relatively well justified in its orcishness. Especially because poison seems like an orcish thing to do (IMO).

And don't forget their images! The Orcish Assassin has the same face, stance, and shirt style as the Orcish Archer, which has an orcish name, race, and movement type.

Actually I remembered something else, too. Their randomly generated name is also orcish.

The only thing that is less orcish about Orcish Assassins than any other orc is their movement type.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The only thing that is less orcish about Orcish Assassins than any other orc is their movement type.

Gameplay > Realism.

[Invisible Philosopher]

The only thing that is less orcish about Orcish Assassins than any other orc is their movement type.

Gameplay > Realism.

Therefore, it doesn't matter whether non-orcishness is realistic, because gameplay is just fine, maybe even better, because they don't have orcish movement type.

Also, in gameplay, every time you can recruit Orcish Assassins you can recruit other orcs, and often when you can recruit orcs you can recruit Orcish Assassins.

But this is all off topic (I think).

[Dacyn]

Nowhere yet, but I could use it if I wanted!

But since you aren't the author of a mainline campaign...

What's so dragonlike about a Fire Dragon?

Its stats are "dragon-like"...

What's so goblinoid about... all the goblins?

They are Goblins because they are Orcs

What's so human about a Mage (or Assassin)?

Their lack of belonging to another race...

I think the Orcish Assassin is relatively well justified in its orcishness.

Well, whatever. I will still call them non-orcish, though.

And don't forget their images! The Orcish Assassin has the same face, stance, and shirt style as the Orcish Archer, which has an orcish name, race, and movement type.

Actually I remembered something else, too. Their randomly generated name is also orcish.

Both of those are just UI...

it doesn't matter whether non-orcishness is realistic

Has anyone said it did in this thread?

Also, in gameplay, every time you can recruit Orcish Assassins you can recruit other orcs, and often when you can recruit orcs you can recruit Orcish Assassins.

by that logic, mermen are elves IIRC...

[Circon]

by that logic, mermen are elves IIRC...

This says that every time you can recruit mermen you can recruit elves.

[Dacyn]

This says that every time you can recruit mermen you can recruit elves.

Actually, it says that I can't remember any times when you can recruit mermen but not elves

[Circon]

This says that every time you can recruit mermen you can recruit elves.

Actually, it says that I can't remember any times when you can recruit mermen but not elves

Saving Elensefar, offhand. I know there's one more somewhere.

[Dacyn]

Saving Elensefar

That's not mainline, and I could easily post a scenario where you could recruit Orcish Assassins but no other orcs if I wanted to.

[Na'enthos]

Sure, you could.. I don't see the point in trying to prove a unit does or does not belong to a certain race by it's availability in scenarios anyway.

To me, assassins are orcs. No matter the stats.. just because it is a game. Flavour-wise, they belong to the orcs and no other race.. unless you want to come up with a new race.

The same reasoning goes for mermen.. even though they have stats which differ from the elves'. They look nowhere like elves and nothing in HttT suggests that they are, say, aquatic elves or something.

And, you know, I see no problem in this at all.

[Gafgarion]

And yet another topic turns into a minor detail bicker-fest.

[Dacyn]

To me, assassins are orcs.

True....

Well, whatever. I will still call them non-orcish, though.

Because to me, then are non-orcish. Obviously most people disagree with me, which does seem a bit irrelevant...

[eugenelim]

Aren't orcs supposed to be grey ala Uruk-Hai (spelling?) or green ala Warcraft? Or is green just a Blizzard creation? What's the convention used in fantasy novels? Usually with orcs, my impression is that their face is always shown, however that may be a restriction in Wesnoth's 72 by 72.