halbardier

purki · Post by **purki** » November 11th, 2005, 8:23 am

Hi!

My idea is to change the attacks of a halbardier.

11-4 pierce

9-4 blade

see you

Tux2B · Post by **Tux2B** » November 11th, 2005, 8:28 am

purki · Post by **purki** » November 11th, 2005, 8:32 am

Tux2B wrote:Why?

because a pikeman has only pierce and so pierce should be stronger.

toms · Post by **toms** » November 11th, 2005, 9:33 am

because itÃ‚Â´s more logical that his pierce attack is very powerful

(think on a real halbardier)

Post by **Dragonking** » November 11th, 2005, 9:45 am

Hmm... that makes sense...

Post by **Thrawn** » November 11th, 2005, 9:52 am

toms wrote:because itÃ‚Â´s more logical that his pierce attack is very powerful
(think on a real halbardier)

well. a halberd was a pole arm with both ax and spear--and I always assumed that ax(blade) more important than spear(pierce)

but I'd Like the change anyways

purki · Post by **purki** » November 11th, 2005, 10:11 am

This is the weapon

Post by **Thrawn** » November 11th, 2005, 10:17 am

purki wrote:This is the weapon

I see a large ax, w/ smaller maybe spear (can't tell) wouldn't that put more emphasis on blade than pierce?

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » November 11th, 2005, 10:18 am

AFAIK Halabards spike was 60cm long!

Post by **Thrawn** » November 11th, 2005, 10:25 am

Tomsik wrote:AFAIK Halabards spike was 60cm long!

I don't think the spike was over 1.5ft that seems large--but I agree that the spearhead should be longer than it is in picture

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » November 11th, 2005, 10:42 am

Here is image(i found it at google image, i hope text isnt problem):

Post by **Thrawn** » November 11th, 2005, 10:47 am

okay---thanks for clarifying!

khamul · Post by **khamul** » November 11th, 2005, 11:42 am

The Pikeman has an 11-3 pierce firststrike attack. The Halbardier has 11-4 blade a 9-4 pierce firststrike attacks: is this not RIPLIB?

It's easy to imagine a situation where you would rather have a Pikeman than a Halbardier - if you are being charged by a horseman with 26 HP in twilight, a single hit from the pikeman's pike will kill the horseman - as the pikeman goes first, he has a 60% chance to kill the horseman and take no damage. The Halbardier, however, only does 18 damage with the blade attack, and 22 with the pierce attack - he needs 2 hits to kill the horseman, so has a much higher chance of taking damage from the attack.

I would say that for a unit with firststrike - especially one designed to recieve cavalry charges - a lower damage pierce attack with more swings is _not_ strictly better than a higher damage attack with less swings.

Switching the damage types around would fix the problem, as would upping the damage and reducing the swings of the pierce attack, which would, IMHO, make the unit more interesting.

Casual User · Post by **Casual User** » November 11th, 2005, 4:04 pm

If the piercing attack was stronger than the bladed one, the bladed attack would be useless as piercing is generally better than bladed, and in the few cases where bladed is better, 9-4 would still be either equal to or less than 11-4.

I think the halberdier's attacks should be changed to

15(or 14)-3 bladed
12-3 piercing

The total damage would still be (roughly) the same, but it would fix RIPLIB and would keep the feel of pikeman - fewer, more powerful attacks vs swordsman - numerous, weaker attacks.

It would also make first strike more useful.

khamul · Post by **khamul** » November 11th, 2005, 4:15 pm

Casual User wrote: I think the halberdier's attacks should be changed to

15(or 14)-3 bladed
12-3 piercing

I think, if my maths is right, this gives a halbardier exactly enough piercing damage to kill a charging horseman on full HP in one hit in the daylight. A strong or resiliant horseman should be able to take the one hit and survive, and a strong halbardier can kill a strong or resilient horseman in one hit.

Sounds about right to me. Anyone charging a horseman at a halbardier in daylight is either desperate, a mad crazy gamblin' man, or doesn't like horsemen.