Improving castles in cave transitions
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Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
@zookeeper:
Awesome job! It works for me! Can you show how the keep is doing? And the orcish versions? Maybe encampment too.
Elvish and desert would be exotic in caves. But maybe cave elves? You never know.
Awesome job! It works for me! Can you show how the keep is doing? And the orcish versions? Maybe encampment too.
Elvish and desert would be exotic in caves. But maybe cave elves? You never know.
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
Terribly. This is overall a bit problematic to do, because I found that when I add or fix one thing, it leads to other changes, and if I fix that it leads to other changes, etc etc. It seems I can't easily just add a few exception rules and have the rest work as before, but instead I have to re-think the way castles and walls work a bit.Wussel wrote:Can you show how the keep is doing?
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
The terrain-graphics re-work is cool, but I just wanted to bring up a potential problem with not leaving things as-is. The castle walls are a big part of the terrain signifier, the terrain can get a bit muddled without them. The dwarf castle has a (sort-of) unique faded dark-tile base, but the regular castle has regular cobbles.
Can the place where it looks a bit off, with castle N,NE,NW of cave-wall "just" be solved with a rule lowering the castle-wall layer for that case?Actually, it doesn't look like it, because the transition from castles on top to caves on top, as you move around the -br to -r to -tr images (I think the castle -tr is the problem), always looks bad. Or at least, I'm not bothered enough by this to keep trying.
How wrong is it, really, to have the castle-walls show against the cave-walls? For the towers-peaking-out-of-shroud thing that nuorc posted, it looks to me like the map needs a touch-up, rather than the graphics need an overhaul. (Unless that's a carefully balanced MP map, in which case player will know there's a castle there anyway.) BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
Yeah, that's a fair point. I think it's a pretty rare case to have large non-dwarf castles adjacent to walls, but of course I don't exactly have all mainline maps memorized.doofus-01 wrote:The terrain-graphics re-work is cool, but I just wanted to bring up a potential problem with not leaving things as-is. The castle walls are a big part of the terrain signifier, the terrain can get a bit muddled without them. The dwarf castle has a (sort-of) unique faded dark-tile base, but the regular castle has regular cobbles.
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
Just to add some perspective to issue, is rare have non-darvish castle "inside" caves (and map designer has chance of use darvish castle to avoid problems). However problem arises more often with castle "outside" cave (and here map designer may find darvish castle like a bad solution)
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
World Conquest II
World Conquest II
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
THoT S12 and NR S2 both have non-dwarvish castles 'inside' caves, AFAIR.zookeeper wrote:Yeah, that's a fair point. I think it's a pretty rare case to have large non-dwarf castles adjacent to walls, but of course I don't exactly have all mainline maps memorized.doofus-01 wrote:The terrain-graphics re-work is cool, but I just wanted to bring up a potential problem with not leaving things as-is. The castle walls are a big part of the terrain signifier, the terrain can get a bit muddled without them. The dwarf castle has a (sort-of) unique faded dark-tile base, but the regular castle has regular cobbles.
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
Probably that, and since I don't know how to do that I'm not very confident...doofus-01 wrote:For the towers-peaking-out-of-shroud thing that nuorc posted, it looks to me like the map needs a touch-up, rather than the graphics need an overhaul.
If the rest of the paragraph was also related to that: I didn't understand a thing, but thank you for pondering the issue.
I have a cunning plan.
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
OT, but the castle hex looks off upon closer inspection- I've attached what I think is an improvement. The front right (or SE) part of the battlement's merlon looks collapsed currently.
- Attachments
-
- castle-concave-bl-new.png (4.1 KiB) Viewed 7829 times
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
@zookeeper:
The keep might be terrible because the floor is lifted to give the keep some hight?
In that case you could put the floor back to ground level. Alternatively you could allow the keep to have walls towards the cave wall.
You could use the dwarfish castle floor to indicate cave castle regardless of the choosen castle walls.
Just a few suggestions.
The keep might be terrible because the floor is lifted to give the keep some hight?
In that case you could put the floor back to ground level. Alternatively you could allow the keep to have walls towards the cave wall.
You could use the dwarfish castle floor to indicate cave castle regardless of the choosen castle walls.
Just a few suggestions.
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
Somewhat off-topic: chasms (Qx*), lava (Qlf), and lava chasm (Ql) have ugly transitions with some other terrains.
Here is the fix for 1.12 (for core/terrain-graphics.cfg). There is no visible changes when modifying lines 739 to 741 but it can't be bad IMO.
Code: Select all
714c714
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Ss (!,Ss,H*,M*,A*,Chs,K*) -230 swamp/water}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Ss (!,Ss,H*,M*,A*,Chs,K*,Q*) -230 swamp/water}
716c716
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Iwr G*,R*,W*,S*,D*,A*,Q*,Ur -230 interior/wood-regular}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Iwr G*,R*,W*,S*,D*,A*,Ur -230 interior/wood-regular}
738,741c738,741
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gll (!,Gll,Qx*,W*,Ai,C*,K*) -270 grass/leaf-litter}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L (Gg*,Qx*) (!,Gg*,Qx*,Mm,Ms,Hh,C*,K*) -271 grass/green-abrupt}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gs (!,Gs,Qx*,C*,K*) -272 grass/semi-dry-abrupt}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gd (!,Gd,Qx*,C*,K*) -273 grass/dry-abrupt}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gll (!,Gll,Q*,W*,Ai,C*,K*) -270 grass/leaf-litter}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L (Gg*,Qx*) (!,Gg*,Q*,Mm,Ms,Hh,C*,K*) -271 grass/green-abrupt}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gs (!,Gs,Q*,C*,K*) -272 grass/semi-dry-abrupt}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Gd (!,Gd,Q*,C*,K*) -273 grass/dry-abrupt}
744c744
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Aa (!,Aa,Qx*,G*) -281 frozen/snow}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Aa (!,Aa,Q*,G*) -281 frozen/snow}
759,761c759,761
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rr (!,Rr,W*,Ai) -320 flat/road}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rrc (!,Rr,W*,Ai) -321 flat/road-clean}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rp (!,Rp,W*,Ai) -322 flat/stone-path}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rr (!,Rr,W*,Ai,Q*) -320 flat/road}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rrc (!,Rr,W*,Ai,Q*) -321 flat/road-clean}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Rp (!,Rp,W*,Ai,Q*) -322 flat/stone-path}
763,764c763,764
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF *^Gvs (!,*^Gvs,C*,K*,*^F*,M*,H*,W*) -330 transition2 embellishments/farm-veg-spring}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF *^Emf (!,*^Emf,C*,K*,*^F*,M*,H*,W*) -330 transition2 embellishments/mushroom-farm}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF *^Gvs (!,*^Gvs,C*,K*,*^F*,M*,H*,W*,Q*) -330 transition2 embellishments/farm-veg-spring}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF *^Emf (!,*^Emf,C*,K*,*^F*,M*,H*,W*,Q*) -330 transition2 embellishments/mushroom-farm}
766,767c766,767
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Ds (!,Ds,W*,S*,Ai) -510 sand/beach}
< {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Dd (!,R*,Dd,W*,S*,Ai) -510 sand/desert}
---
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Ds (!,Ds,W*,S*,Ai,Q*) -510 sand/beach}
> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L Dd (!,R*,Dd,W*,S*,Ai,Q*) -510 sand/desert}
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
I've committed your fixes to master. Thanks
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?
Re: Improving castles in cave transitions
In the future, please note that we prefer patches to be posted in unified diff format (
diff -U
if using the command line tool), which includes sufficient context to resolve most issues with outdated patches, including line numbers changing after a release. git diff
will produce a diff in this format by default.Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.