REQUEST - New images for orcish crossbowman

Post by **Jetrel** » January 6th, 2007, 9:07 am

Hopefully eternal and zhukov can chime in, here - for this one I'm more than willing to help out with some of the animation frames.

I would like to "biggify" the slurbow enough to be nearly the size of the warrior, though not quite (especially broadening those puny shoulders), but I'd like to do so without really changing the costuming - adding new details in is fine, but I'd like to leave most of the costuming as-is. The only other major change is that, to improve the transition between the standing and melee-attack images, I'd like to swap the sides of the two weapons on this guy.

After that, I'd like to completely redesign (except perhaps for the head) the crossbowman, making him more of a proper "intermediate" step between the two. The crossbowman should be as big as the grunt. Also, I'd like to come up with a new angle for drawing the crossbowman's crossbow, preferably one which won't cover up the entire body (and preferably one at a side angle).

Post by **Eternal** » January 6th, 2007, 10:52 am

I tweaked up the xbow... I'm quite unsure how to position the crossbow so it looks good and isn't covering the whole body...

Well here's the unit with a loose crossbow. How does it look? Is it too big?

Hender · Post by **Hender** » January 6th, 2007, 6:53 pm

I don't understand why we never see the orcs' faces. I never understood, when I started playing, why the grunt had a tiny head with a helmet ... it did not look orc-like at all. Likewise the assassin and archer lines have masks on. So I made a quick edit of Eternal's sprite as a lousy proof of concept.

Yeah ... I'll go back and make nagas again.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 6th, 2007, 8:57 pm

Eternal wrote:I tweaked up the xbow... I'm quite unsure how to position the crossbow so it looks good and isn't covering the whole body...

Well here's the unit with a loose crossbow. How does it look? Is it too big?

Nope, believe it or not, it's too short. I'd like the crossbowman to be as intimidating in size as the grunt - he has more hitpoints, and is also a level-2 to boot.

This is okay, morphologically, if we take the archer to be kneeling.

I've done a quick hack to illustrate this - the crossbowman may be a bit too "thick"/burly, but it should be the same height as the grunt.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 6th, 2007, 9:04 pm

Hender wrote:I don't understand why we never see the orcs' faces. I never understood, when I started playing, why the grunt had a tiny head with a helmet ... it did not look orc-like at all. Likewise the assassin and archer lines have masks on. So I made a quick edit of Eternal's sprite as a lousy proof of concept.

Yeah ... I'll go back and make nagas again.

Please do - this kind of commentary is really unwelcome. Especially preposterous statements like: "it did not look orc-like at all." A more accurate way to phrase this would be "it did not agree with my conception of orcs," since, of course, orcs aren't real, and thus we have nothing to validate against. We've chosen a single cultural design for the mainline orcs, and we're not changing that at this 11th hour.

This isn't up for discussion here - any OT comments about "what is properly orcish" are going to be mercilessly deleted.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 6th, 2007, 10:54 pm

Hender wrote:why the grunt had a tiny head

Because we never got around to replacing the ancient-wesnoth head with the modern size - shame on us. If our two patron saints of all things orcish don't mind*, I'd like to apply the following edit to the Grunt and Warrior (just a size increase on the head):

* this of course means eternal and zhukov. Duh.

Post by **Zhukov** » January 7th, 2007, 12:21 am

I'm starting on the slurbow now. Just so you and Eternal know.

Regarding grunt-line heads, well...I'm having instant negative reaction. However that's likely because I'm accustomed to the small ones. (Had a similar initial reaction to the new HI, but got used to them pretty quick.)
Maybe reduce the head on the Grunt just a leeeeedle bit. The bubble head effect is most jarring on him because his body is smaller then the Warrior and Warlord.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 7th, 2007, 12:41 am

Zhukov wrote:Regarding grunt-line heads, well...I'm having instant negative reaction. However that's likely because I'm accustomed to the small ones. (Had a similar initial reaction to the new HI, but got used to them pretty quick.) Maybe reduce the head on the Grunt just a leeeeedle bit. The bubble head effect is most jarring on him because his body is smaller then the Warrior and Warlord.

Actually, one possible avenue of fixing is to beef him up a little bit - I've widened the shoulders on both him and the warrior in the following image.

Post by **Zhukov** » January 7th, 2007, 6:51 am

Okay, how's this for the Slurbow?

For now I've left out the arm and hand that will hold the crossbow - wasn't entirely sure what to do with it.
One distinct possibility is for him to hold it like this creature by Alks (bottom centre). Could work...?

Attaching the XCF file just in case.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 7th, 2007, 8:59 am

Zhukov wrote:Okay, how's this for the Slurbow?

For now I've left out the arm and hand that will hold the crossbow - wasn't entirely sure what to do with it.
One distinct possibility is for him to hold it like this creature by Alks (bottom centre). Could work...?

It could, although Alks' pose is a little goofy. I'd suggest having him just hold it down and to the side.

Everything else you've done for the slurbow is fairly good - there are a few minor edits I'd like to make, and I'll unfortunately give the usual 8hr delay while I go sleep; I'll try and do them in the morning.

Post by **irrevenant** » January 7th, 2007, 10:15 am

Jetryl wrote:
Hender wrote:I don't understand why we never see the orcs' faces. I never understood, when I started playing, why the grunt had a tiny head with a helmet
This isn't up for discussion here - any OT comments about "what is properly orcish" are going to be mercilessly deleted.

I'm certainly not going to argue that it's 'improperly orcish', but the sprite art for the Grunt line does seem inconsistent with the portrait art for that line (or vice versa).

I know I'm not an Art Dev, so I'm just flagging this for comment - not passing judgement.

And I realise there's some flexibility for artistic embellishment in the creation of portraits, but this seems to go beyond that into incongruity.

Post by **Eternal** » January 7th, 2007, 12:15 pm

New helmets for grunt and warrior. Looks neat.

But I just got done the zombie variation with a small helmet!

It's nothing, really. I'll get it fixed quick and with no trouble.

Here's a crossbowman just about the height of a grunt. Too burly still?

Post by **Boucman** » January 7th, 2007, 12:57 pm

stupid question: is the xbowman an orc or a goblin ? form the archer graphic, I would say it's a goblin, but goblins should be less massive...

Post by **Eternal** » January 7th, 2007, 3:07 pm

It's an orc and the size of the archer has bothered me too.
The archer should be at least the size of the current assasin.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » January 7th, 2007, 3:31 pm

I was under the impression Archers and Assassins were actually goblins.